"Never fold for one bet...

chaz64 · #1 10-29-2004, 09:07 AM

...on the river in a big pot."

Or something like that, right?

Paradise Poker 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.02.
UTG calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO (poster) calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (18 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (12 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (22 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, MP1 raises, MP3 folds, Button folds, BB 3-bets, Hero folds, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 29 BB

But you do fold when it's two bets back to you here, don't you? Comments, please - I think I played this right, let me know if I didn't.

jrz1972 · #2 10-29-2004, 09:11 AM

I don't think I'm good 1 in 13.5 times here, so I fold. I think I was behind on the turn, and the river card certainly didn't help matters any. I don't think this is a close decision.

PokerIsLife · #3 10-29-2004, 09:26 AM

The flop was a board that was so full of draws, that the 3rd club had to of hit someone if they were drawing. Someone might have hit a straight on the flop as well. I think I might of checked the turn to see what everyone else does. I might call if a late person bets, but fold if it's 2 back to me. I would definitely fold on the river after BB lead out. There's no way that you could win this one with that many player in the hand still.

btspider · #4 10-29-2004, 09:29 AM

easiest. river-fold-for-one-bet. ever.
i don't think the concept uses the word "never".

plaschke · #5 10-29-2004, 10:02 AM

I think you have to fold the river as btspider said it doesnt say never, plus the BB woke up on the river, he probably had the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

You could have tried a check raise on the flop instead of betting out. This may protect your hand better.

With TPTK that is vunerable you have to protect your hand. Sometimes a check raise will protect it while a bet will not.

I think this is right?

Yads · #6 10-29-2004, 01:26 PM

I think you're definitely behind on the turn and most likely drawing dead.

jrz1972 · #7 10-29-2004, 01:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You could have tried a check raise on the flop instead of betting out. This may protect your hand better.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Where is the bet coming from? If the guy to your immediate left bets (just as likely as anybody else), you've actually missed a chance to protect your hand by betting out and getting raised.

2. If anybody is going to hang around for one bet with the bare A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], he is also going to hang around for zero bets. Giving a free card here is disaterous.

3. No number of flop bets will drive out somebody with a four-flush or oesd.

Betting here is fine. There is effectively no way to protect your hand from legitimate draws, and there are almost certainly some out there. Just get your value bet in.

meep_42 · #8 10-29-2004, 01:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to fold the river as btspider said it doesnt say never, plus the BB woke up on the river, he probably had the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

You could have tried a check raise on the flop instead of betting out. This may protect your hand better.

With TPTK that is vunerable you have to protect your hand. Sometimes a check raise will protect it while a bet will not.

I think this is right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Where is the first bet on the flop coming from? Allowing this to check through would be disasterous -- and a bet from your immediate left would do nothing to protect your hand, should you check-raise.

-d

chaz64 · #9 10-29-2004, 02:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're definitely behind on the turn and most likely drawing dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying I should check-fold the turn?

I thought that assuming someone had a flush here would be weak, and I was more likely behind someone who just turned two pair, in which case I thought I had enough outs to call. I was sorely tempted to fold to the first river bet, but recalled someone posting here a while back about never folding for one bet when the pot was big. Maybe he should not have used (or didn't use) the word "never" but that's how I remember it anyway...

jrz1972 · #10 10-29-2004, 02:23 PM

I would probably have mucked to the first river bet. First of all you haven't improved and are still losing to MP1. Second, when BB suddenly wakes up on the 4th club, that's should set a siren off. Third, even if you call that first bet, you know there's a possibility of a raise behind you. There is no way your hand is good here.

The rule is not to fold a *decent* had for one bet on the river in a big pot. On this board and action, your hand really isn't decent.