Isolating an all in

Roland32 · #1 09-27-2005, 01:32 PM

Well, I figured the combination of his short stack as well as the blinds meant he had a wide range here. I think this move is only slightly +ev. But with the increased call range of the blinds does it make this move -ev?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) converter

Hero (t1355)
SB (t1005)
BB (t760)
UTG (t3545)
UTG+1 (t1710)
MP1 (t1860)
MP2 (t2575)
CO (t690)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, CO raises to t690, Hero raises to t1355, 1 fold, BB calls t660 (All-In).

Flop: (t2855) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2855) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2855) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2855

Results in white below: 
BB has Qh Qc (one pair, queens).
CO has Jc Qs (high card, king).
Hero has Tc Ah (one pair, tens).
Outcome: BB wins t2120. Hero wins t735.

pergesu · #2 09-27-2005, 01:36 PM

I don't like it.

He's not desperate. Yeah he's got a (fairly) short stack (though he's not in bad shape) and he's got a few hands to go. You're not likely to be up against a total trash hand. Sometimes you'll have him dominated, sometimes he'll have you dominated, and a lot of times he'll have two live cards or a pair. It's just not good enough to push, I think, when you're sitting on 13 BBs.

I would want at least AQ to isolate. Way more likely to have him dominated, because he could push KQ and QJ in this spot, whereas he's not that likely to push JT-.

#3 09-27-2005, 01:42 PM

I would have folded this hand in this situation. You've already got 1 short stack all-in, with two other short stacks to act, one of whom has 9xBB and the other 7xBB after posting. They're both in the realm where you can expect them to instapush. A-10 isn't the hand I'd choose to show down 3 other hands.

I don't think there's any way to isolate in this situation, as you've guaranteed the SB 2:1 on his call, and potentially 3:1 if he BB comes along. You've got better chances if you're the first into the pot, IMHO.

pergesu · #4 09-27-2005, 01:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
They're both in the realm where you can expect them to instapush.

[/ QUOTE ]
Huh? No. < 10 BB doesn't mean people start pushing like crazy. It's a basic guideline we use because increasing your stack by 15-40% is usually worth the risk of busting out.

But no, you're not gonna get many calls here. One of em usually has to wake up with a monster. Sometimes you'll get a call by 88. By no means should you assume you're showing down vs 3 people - you're far more likely to make this a heads up pot.

#5 09-27-2005, 01:48 PM

Fair enough. What would your preferred play in this situation be? Calling would allow him to get away fairly cheaply, but I think that flop invites a strong bet by Hero, and we wind up in a similar situation.

pooh74 · #6 09-27-2005, 01:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I figured the combination of his short stack as well as the blinds meant he had a wide range here. I think this move is only slightly +ev. But with the increased call range of the blinds does it make this move -ev?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) converter

Hero (t1355)
SB (t1005)
BB (t760)
UTG (t3545)
UTG+1 (t1710)
MP1 (t1860)
MP2 (t2575)
CO (t690)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, CO raises to t690, Hero raises to t1355, 1 fold, BB calls t660 (All-In).

Flop: (t2855) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2855) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2855) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2855

Results in white below: 
BB has Qh Qc (one pair, queens).
CO has Jc Qs (high card, king).
Hero has Tc Ah (one pair, tens).
Outcome: BB wins t2120. Hero wins t735. 

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're gonna be in the hand then you played it right; you have to push it. But I might pass here. If I was last to act/BB I would probably call. Thats how close it is, cas there's not THAT much difference between the 2 scenarios.

pergesu · #7 09-27-2005, 01:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What would your preferred play in this situation be?

[/ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop

pooh74 · #8 09-27-2005, 01:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough. What would your preferred play in this situation be? Calling would allow him to get away fairly cheaply, but I think that flop invites a strong bet by Hero, and we wind up in a similar situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats not what he means...and calling does not allow him to get away fairly cheaply, thats just ridiculous.

#9 09-27-2005, 01:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thats not what he means...and calling does not allow him to get away fairly cheaply, thats just ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right -- I looked at the numbers again and I stand corrected (again). Ah forums, where the new can expect to ask a simple clarifying question and get beat up by a veteran. Perhaps deservedly.

kuro · #10 09-27-2005, 02:00 PM

Calling is not an option here. You fold.