A Simple Proposition

I have been pondering this question recently to help myself discover why people believe in metaphysical things and to help me understand the psychology of faith in general. This is the question I pose to you (it's not only for believers, but I think we will learn more from their answers):

Suppose (make-believe time; this cannot happen but you must play along) a discovery is made that disproves the existence of any god or creator. This discovery - and its origin is irrelevant - provides a clear-cut universal proof, such as in a mathematical equation. In other words, it is as precise and as universally unquestioned as 2+2=4. That is as clear as I need to make my example for this purpose, as you should realize that I'm not saying this is possible; it is purely hypothetical. Even if you object by saying that the possibility of this would change the nature of the universe, I will disagree and say that that does not matter.

What I am after is to see not only HOW a believer would justify his/her faith in the face of irrefutable reason, but WHY. To make this question really work, try to take it seriously and suppose for a minute that it is true. Would you, and could you still believe in God if His nonexistence is as irrefutable as 2+2=4? If so, why?

Do you think anybody would still have faith after this? To the thinkers here, retaining faith would seem stupid indeed. But I believe a Christian would insist that God is beyond human reason, and therefore would ignore the proof. So in the moment of truth, would a believer be intellectually honest enough to renounce God in favor of truth? I am skeptical. I don't think many Christians (or others with strong religious convictions) would lose their faith as readily as they should. Agree or disagree?

[hmkpoker]

This has already been done. It's called common sense.

[Lestat]

lol- Are you kidding? These implications already exist!

Do you think believing some of the stories that are in the bible is any different than believing 2+2 does NOT equal 4?

Okay but what concerns me is the tendency of people to ignore common sense in favor of beliefs that they want to have, but that have no logical grounding. Faith is a powerful and seductive force, especially when the idea of eternal hell is factored in. The nonexistence of God hasn't yet been proved, but it's becoming more and more obvious to the well-informed. But the majority of people would rather live in blissful ignorance than search for truth. The only reason for this, I believe, is because they do not know how much better truth is than ignorance. They are afraid. They are weak; not because they are naturally weak, but because their minds have been conditioned that way. Mankind can be much better than this -- it is time for a new age. What do you think??

[Siegmund]

This is, perhaps, a good time to remind you all that you may choose any one of "2+2=0", "2+2=1", or "2+2=4" to believe, and still have a logically consistent system. (It happens that the system resulting from choosing 4 is a bit richer and more complicated than the other two are. But not everyone wants to have a rich, complicated worldview.) "God created it all" is an interesting parallel to the "2+2=0 universe" (where the only meaningful distinctions among integers are Odd and Even - sort of like lumping all objects into Godmade and Manmade.)

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
This is, perhaps, a good time to remind you all that you may choose any one of "2+2=0", "2+2=1", or "2+2=4" to believe, and still have a logically consistent system. (It happens that the system resulting from choosing 4 is a bit richer and more complicated than the other two are. But not everyone wants to have a rich, complicated worldview.) "God created it all" is an interesting parallel to the "2+2=0 universe" (where the only meaningful distinctions among integers are Odd and Even - sort of like lumping all objects into Godmade and Manmade.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Defined correctly 0, 1, 2, 4, +, and = have meaning such that 2 + 2 = 4 is true. When a mathematician says that a + b = 0 if the sum of a and b is even and a + b = 1 if the sum of a and b is odd he doesn't not mean the usual integer representations of the symbol a and b and doesn't mean the usual arithmetic meaning of the symbol +.