Flopped flush against a LAG...

Entity · #1 05-24-2005, 01:54 AM

Villain is a 58/18 sort of LAG preflop, generally aggressive postflop. No specific reads with the exception that he called a flop raise w/AQo on a 75T board after it was raised preflop, then called a turn bet and called 2 cold on the river when the final board read T557A (I had 77). So that makes him read more like a calling station, but I have him as bluff-raising an 83s gutshot draw on an AA25 board against a calling station, so he's not as passive as that hand might make him seem.

I think this may be misplayed on every street, but at least I think the river is interesting.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $5.
2 folds, CO (poster) raises, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (5.20 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks...

SCfuji · #2 05-24-2005, 02:05 AM

if he will bluff/fold then doesnt that make the check-raise worth less than it usually would be worth?

Entity · #3 05-24-2005, 02:08 AM

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if he will bluff/fold then doesnt that make the check-raise worth less than it usually would be worth?

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It's only worth less if he has a hand that will A) call a bet and B) not bet if I check. It's worth a lot when he has a hand that will bet and pay off a curious checkraise.

Given his turn call he isn't raising me on this river so I don't think betting will ever earn 2 bets from him, but checkraising might occasionally. I'm even wondering if betting will earn a bet from him.

Rob

Isura · #4 05-24-2005, 02:11 AM

I think leading the river is more convincing that you don't have a great hand. It looks like you tried to push him off the pot on the turn, but failed and are firing another bullet on the river. I think villain calls with quite a few hands here (77-JJ, a Q, even A high sometimes), but I doubt he'll bet any of these.

billyjex · #5 05-24-2005, 02:13 AM

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if he will bluff/fold then doesnt that make the check-raise worth less than it usually would be worth?

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It's only worth less if he has a hand that will A) call a bet and B) not bet if I check. It's worth a lot when he has a hand that will bet and pay off a curious checkraise.

Given his turn call he isn't raising me on this river so I don't think betting will ever earn 2 bets from him, but checkraising might occasionally. I'm even wondering if betting will earn a bet from him.

Rob

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i bet here. he will call with so much here, you got to the river, the only thing he's folding to a bet is a lone diamond and since he seems fairly loose he might call with A high. this looks a little too FPS for me.

Isura · #6 05-24-2005, 02:19 AM

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this looks a little too FPS for me.

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Agree. Entity, I've heard you are on a downswing to start 5/10. Perhaps you're overthinking some simple situations, and overadjusting too much. I'd give a while more before you start tinkering too much with a style/strategy that you used to get to this point.

Entity · #7 05-24-2005, 02:22 AM

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this looks a little too FPS for me.

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Agree. Entity, I've heard you are on a downswing to start 5/10. Perhaps you're overthinking some simple situations, and overadjusting too much. I'd give a while more before you start tinkering too much with a style/strategy that you used to get to this point.

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Actually, against an aggressive player I'll often bet the turn intending to 3-bet (this is standard for me), but if he just calls, I'll check the river intending to checkraise. It's worked frequently at $3/6 and at other odd limits (@Interpoker), so it's not FPS for the sake of FPS, but something that's worked well to this point up against aggressive opposition. I'm questioning whether it works often enough at $5/10 or not, but that's my adjustment: it's been my SOP line quite frequently and has done very well for me up until this point. I find it preferrable to checkraising the flop or turn on this (scary) board as a flop/turn checkraise will often let someone get away from a weaker hand easily.

I don't think he'll call the river with Ace-high because I have no reason to believe he'd do that. He's been aggressive up to this point, though I have seen him make slightly questionable calls of raises, which also swayed my thinking on this one.

My most likely range of hands on him are: some sort of highcard hand with a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], a weak Queen (like QTo or Q9o), and pocket pairs with a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Some of these he'll call a bet with on the river, especially pocket pairs, but I'm really not convinced that he won't bet those more than 50% of the time. I think he's paying off a checkraise a very high portion of the time given his other tendencies.

Rob

spydog · #8 05-24-2005, 03:22 AM

I don't like your flop play. I would check-raise this flop. If he has a baby flush you will get huge action on the flop and turn. If he's got the Ace of hearts he will 3-bet the flop and you can cap and go from there. Checkraising and leading the turn gives him an opportunity to raise you on a later street (which you can 3-bet), especially if he's holding a lone heart and the 4th flush card comes. Also, he might be willing to give you action while there are 3 flush cards, but will slow down or fold when the 4th flush card hits.

I think its a huge mistake to go all passive/tricky against a LAG when you have made a huge hand. Play it fast and aggressive with a monster, that is how you make the big $$ against these types players.

J.R. · #9 05-24-2005, 04:15 AM

u could 3-bet preflop, he is raising an LP post.

give your call my default would be check-raise lead turn, you give him the chance to make a big mistake with that line and charge him more than gaybetting plus you're unlikely to lose his action as flop check-raise headup can mean a lot. generally throw as many bets out there as u can and hope he bites is the way against an aggressive postflop player.

mperich · #10 05-24-2005, 05:12 AM

checkraise the turn. if hes really aggro on the flop and will 3bet a lot then c/r the flop is ok. If I play it like you did, the river checkraise is great...against the right player, which is usually a good lag or a decent tag. He seems a little bad to be a good valuebetter on the end, but I think it's close anyways.

-Mike