Advanced Second Level or just FPS

Im looking for ways to take down pots without simple continuation bets lately, as when moving up ive noticed it seems to be a leak of mine relative to the other players.

Here villain has just sat down, and already shortstacked, so an obvious fish. SB is likely to bet with any piece. So I assume my A-high is likely to be good and fire off the flop and turn. On the river I try to induce a bluff from any hand with a fd or st on the turn that missed now firing at me.

Is this good shorthanded play or just fancy play syndrome?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls, SB folds.

Turn: (2.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

River: (4.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

[Digs]

With a read that the guy doesnt fold a flop/turn sequence bet ever it's a good move.

I use this typically with higher aces and an aggro read. The board being paired makes a nice place to c/c the river too.

Give it up agianst passives however.

I'm confused in these situations aswell (including when I'm the PFR). I'm sure it's a leak but into a small field I always think I've got the fold equity if nothing else.

Is it all read dependant? Is there a standard play here?

Should you even bet the turn here?
If you're going to call a river bet, is the better play a turn c\r?
Should you bet the river here - to fold better A's.
Should you not bet because you're only going to get called by better hands.
[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Damn I hate it when they call my flop bet.

Common situation and I'm interested in people's opinions.

[jrz1972]

It's .5/1 6-max. The guy called you on the flop, and he called you on the turn. Then he bet the river. He has a 2, a 6, 55, or some other pathetic holding that beats yours. Just fold the river and get on to the next hand.

FWIW, notice that he cannot possibly be bluffing with a busted draw. There weren't any draws on the flop that he could have been chasing.

Consistently calling the river with A-high against passive calling stations (your default read on any unknown player in this game) is a good way to get broke in SH games.

[@bsolute_luck]

i'm done with it on the turn. you gave it a shot on the flop and it didn't work. he probably either has a PP, a 9 or 2 or overcards which that Q might have got. pot is too small to keep investing. if he wants to bluff this turn, he can have this small donation of mine.

if you think he's bluffing, i'll check/call and check/fold the river UI against an unknown as i don't see bluffers continue to bet with nothing.

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, notice that he cannot possibly be bluffing with a busted draw. There weren't any draws on the flop that he could have been chasing.


[/ QUOTE ]

I strongly disagree here.

Any Ahxh isnt folding (and most likely chops the river. Any 2 overcards arent folding. KT, JT, even T8 will most likely see a turn at this level, all of these hands pick up a chasable draw on the turn.

ive even seen hands like Kx, Ax and Jx play here with the possibility of hitting their one oc.

and,

[ QUOTE ]
if you think he's bluffing, i'll check/call and check/fold the river UI against an unknown as i don't see bluffers continue to bet with nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

he isnt bluffing, he doesnt bet until the river. I think he is chasing ocs on the flop, then a straight/fd on the turn. both miss so he realises betting is the only way to take the pot.

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, notice that he cannot possibly be bluffing with a busted draw. There weren't any draws on the flop that he could have been chasing.


[/ QUOTE ]

I strongly disagree here.

Any Ahxh isnt folding (and most likely chops the river. Any 2 overcards arent folding. KT, JT, even T8 will most likely see a turn at this level, all of these hands pick up a chasable draw on the turn.

ive even seen hands like Kx, Ax and Jx play here with the possibility of hitting their one oc.

[/ QUOTE ]

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] X [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] didn't have a draw on the flop and should have folded at that spot. Same with the other hands you mentioned. Some of the hands you cited should have folded the turn (gutshots).

If villain is betting with a busted draw, he grossly misplayed earlier in the hand. You're far more likely to be up against a busted draw if two [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]s had hit on the flop.

Hey, if you think villain called all this way with Kx and is now betting into you, by all means call the river. Just keep a running tally of how many times you pick off a bluff and how many times you lose. Then come back and talk to me about Kx.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
Any Ahxh isnt folding

[/ QUOTE ]
[nit]You've got the Ah.[/nit]

I'd also probably c/f the turn, knowing I'm folding the best hand often enough to suck but rarely enough to make it the most +EV move.

LOL ok I could go back and edit so i dont look like such an idiot, but i think ill just leave it.

As is probably fairly obvious by now from how ive spoken, he flipped JTo. Which makes a lot of sense at this level for a fish.

Two overcards on the flop. An OESD on the turn. Then misses the river and bets out realising there is no other way to take the pot.

However, i think i am probably being way too results oriented. There are only KJ, KT, T8 and JT that could be even considered to be played in this way, and most hands are hitting that Q if they werent ahead already.

Thanks for some good advice from the more exp posters around here, FPS like this is probably mostly pointless at this level.

2 more questions as well (for my 100th post):

1. Given the preflop, do you bet that flop?
2. Given the action up to and including the turn, do you call the river?

Im wondering if my only real mistake here was made on the turn. Although then again, without making that turn mistake, the river call would not be at all possible for the reduced pot.