techniques for folding your overpair

[BigBiceps]

I don't have the hand histories available as examples at the moment, however last session (on 2 different tables) I had 2 hands (one where I was trapped and the other where I trapped) with an overpair and losing the stack.

Basically, it is overpair against overpair, with the bigger overpair in the blind position smooth calling the raise. Then the money goes in either on the flop or the turn, with the bigger overpair calling the all in of the smaller over pair.

It was QQ v KK with KK in the blind. And JJ v QQ with QQ in the blind. When I trapped the other guy, I felt like a genius, when I got trapped, I felt like an idiot. How does one avoid being the idiot?

What are the techinques to not lose your stack in these situations on the flop and turn?

[meleader2]

with the case of KK vs your QQ its quite simple. i'll give two sample cases:

while using PT:
very simply look at the person's statistics. if the player is tight, you can easily look at his reraise on the flop and say set or two pair. no tight player in a blind is calling a raise w/out a PP. easy fold.
if the player has real loose stats then it can still look like two pair but you are probably still going to be sucked in. nothing you can do there.

other case is no PT:
without PT and you are multi tabling you can pot control by NOT putting your whole stack in. let the player take control. if you bet the flop and get check raised simply call then check call it through, or fold to his push.

Sometimes you can sometimes you can't. A million different situations

Off the top of my head, a turn check-raise after calling your preflop raise and flop bet is probably not top pair

[BigBiceps]

Both, times the larger pair slowplayed and let the smaller pair put the stack in. There was no reraise. The push came either on the flop (the one I won) or the turn (the one I lost).

[PokerFink]

This is a very opponent dependent situation.

Look at how aggressive a player is (either based on their play or their AF in PT). How often to they call preflop raises? How often do they smooth call bets post flop?

Then look at the board. Are there draws or is it dry? If a player tends to be aggressive and there are no draws, he is likely slowplaying if he is smooth calling preflop and on the flop.

[Hoopster81]

OK, so I will assume the betting goes like this (you have QQ):

EP (KK) raises, LP (QQ) re-raises, EP calls.

or

MP raises (QQ), SB/BB (KK) calls

Ok, so as meleader said, this is totally player dependent how you treat this situation. Tight players are not going to coninue after your continuation bet unless you are behind (usually). Against these players, I proceed very cautiously if they call my flop bet.

Against loose players, I don't usually slow down. If they have me beat, so be it.

[xorbie]

The simple solution is to not value bet all in when you're not getting called by worse hands.

I think you reload and get back to work. Situations like this happen occasionally, but honestly so seldom that you should'nt worry about it too bad.

This is all without a read/stats, of course. Or if you're terrible at knowing when to lay it down like me.

[BigBiceps]

It is not that rare, I have been involved in this situation 3 times in 500 hands, and have seen about 5-8 other people in the situation in those hands.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
It is not that rare, I have been involved in this situation 3 times in 500 hands, and have seen about 5-8 other people in the situation in those hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm...maybe perhaps it's the stakes. i know the 2nl - 25nl (even some 50nl) players on UB do this crap. nothing you can do about these people playing like this besides slowing down against the tighties. so if u raise and they smooth call a 3/4 pot bet on the flop after it is checked to you (thanks to swolfe's advice...i HIGHLY advocate using this) all you will do is get lesser hands to fold and better ones to call then check the turn. at which point check behind. the river they will either pot or bet 1/2. if they bet 1/2 easy call, pot easy fold.