SB KTs raising to steal BB

steelcmg · #1 08-01-2005, 01:55 PM

Last night i was in a PS tourney i had about 4400 chips in the SB with the blinds at 200/400. I was delt KTs all fold to me.

The BB had about 8000 and was the type of player to call with almost anything for a single bet. It was still about 200 people away from making the money so no big deal if i get knocked out.

Im not sure what the best play here would be. KTs is much to strong of a hand to fold here but at the same time i have to rule out just betting to 800 since BB will most likely call. Also i fell that making the bet to 1200 kinda kills my stack and leaves me with nothing if he decides to reraise me before the flop. Going all in makes it where he would need to have a pretty big hand to call me with.

So what do u think the best move here is maybe a good time for a the 800 bet and then a stop and go? If i bet 1200 and BB goes all in do u call? Any thoughts on this would be helpfull since these types of situations come up often in MTT.

handsome · #2 08-01-2005, 02:06 PM

I like calling > folding > p00shing > 2-3bb raise. At this stage of the tournament, it's better to maintain a "tight" image and steal from the late positions.

Toddy · #3 08-01-2005, 02:14 PM

I like to overbet these to about T1500, but if he goes all in you're pretty much committed. I think its worth a shot. I definetly wouldn't call, because by the sounds of the guy he'll probably raise and there goes your vigorish.

AliasMrJones · #4 08-01-2005, 02:51 PM

Stop n go is for when you have no FE. With 1/2 the BB's stack you have a lot of FE here.

I say push and I don't think it's very close.

Potowame · #5 08-01-2005, 02:57 PM

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I say push and I don't think it's very close.

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K10s is a monster with 10bb , SB Vs. BB.

If he wakes up with a hand oh well its suckout time.

If he calls with 99 or smaller, I like my chances.

If he folds (which he will more often than not) thats good to.

steelcmg · #6 08-01-2005, 02:59 PM

Yea thats what i did i pushed just because of the type of player he was. i really dont like just calling either because he would raised me with anything since i showed weekness.

Potowame · #7 08-01-2005, 03:06 PM

If the hand was a little bigger, A10s-AK 99+ I might limp this type of player, if I know he is going to raise with about anything.

the old limp push......... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

handsome · #8 08-01-2005, 03:37 PM

I absolutely HATE p00shing here, especially against a large stack. Blinds are still relatively small, and contrary to another poster's belief, KTs is NOT a "monster" in any situation (heads up or otherwise). You're a dog to most calling hands, which include Ax, KJ+ and pocket pairs. The only "reasonable" calling hand that you're ahead of is QJs, which still isn't an obvious call for villain. Not worth it IMO.

Potowame · #9 08-01-2005, 03:58 PM

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I like calling > folding > p00shing > 2-3bb raise. At this stage of the tournament, it's better to maintain a "tight" image and steal from the late positions.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

I absolutely HATE p00shing here, especially against a large stack. Blinds are still relatively small, and contrary to another poster's belief, KTs is NOT a "monster" in any situation (heads up or otherwise). You're a dog to most calling hands, which include Ax, KJ+ and pocket pairs. The only "reasonable" calling hand that you're ahead of is QJs, which still isn't an obvious call for villain. Not worth it IMO.

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Okay, So should play tight and Steal from Late position. Yet K10 Is very Weak Hand to try to steal with in the SB ? 77 is a weak hand to any calling hand also, so what you do here complete check fold?

First Hero , asked about stealing from the SB, with a aggressive BB, Big stack (20BB). This big stack is big but not huge, it will take a monster hand for him to call.

If you want to play weak tight go ahead. What I meant By this is a monster is that with 10bb I will shove alot less, because the situation calls for it , not what two cards I have.

AliasMrJones · #10 08-01-2005, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I absolutely HATE p00shing here, especially against a large stack. Blinds are still relatively small, and contrary to another poster's belief, KTs is NOT a "monster" in any situation (heads up or otherwise). You're a dog to most calling hands, which include Ax, KJ+ and pocket pairs. The only "reasonable" calling hand that you're ahead of is QJs, which still isn't an obvious call for villain. Not worth it IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really, really bad. You are correct that KT is no monster by any means, but against 2 random cards (which is what the SB has) it is about 63% to win or tie. That's an edge I'm unwilling to pass up. But, you're going to be out of position for the rest of the hand. I'm raising here 100% of the time in the SB.

You say blinds are relatively small. By what standard? You have 11xBB. That ain't a lot. The good news is noone has a heck of a lot so you have huge FE here. Given that we take half his stack if he loses, I wouldn't be surprised to see BB fold KJs, KQ, AT or even AJ here. In any event, even using your calling range you're talking, what about top 10% of starting hands? That means 90% of the time he's folding and 10% of the time we're going to be a race with underpairs to our T, 2-1 dog to pocket J or Q, 2.85-1 dog to AK, AT, slight underdog to Ax and of course really hurting if he has AA or KK. Combine the 90% of the time we scoop the blinds and and relatively significant times we double up when we're called and I think this is definitely +EV.

The only awkward thing to me is our stack size. 11xBB is tough. We aren't into what I think of as real push or fold territory, but we're just on the cusp and a standard raise is a big chunk of our stack. Given that we're out of position postflop, I like the push.