Hand vs Rizen Paradise 100k

[sirio11]

I want your opinions about how we both played this hand. About 90 players left, they pay 70 places.


Game #1088614700 - Tournament $100,000 !! - 400/800 No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2005/11/13-18:31:31.7 (CST)
Table "$100,000 !! 54" (MTT) -- Seat 8 is the button
Seat 1: The Survivor (9,739 in chips)
Seat 3: shoptiludrop (3,440 in chips)
Seat 4: kde600sl (13,511 in chips)
Seat 5: sirio11 (10,521 in chips)
Seat 6: Rizen (7,245 in chips)
Seat 7: mrbab (20,632 in chips)
Seat 8: wino1 (820 in chips)
Seat 9: 316814 (9,676 in chips)
Seat 10: thephen0m (4,874 in chips)
shoptiludrop: Ante (50)
kde600sl: Ante (50)
sirio11 : Ante (50)
Rizen : Ante (50)
mrbab : Ante (50)
wino1 : Ante (50)
316814 : Ante (50)
thephen0m: Ante (50)
The Survivor: Ante (50)
316814 : Post Small Blind (400)
thephen0m: Post Big Blind (800)
Dealing...
Dealt to sirio11 [ Qh ]
Dealt to sirio11 [ Ks ]
The Survivor: Fold
shoptiludrop: Fold
kde600sl: Fold
sirio11 : Raise (2,000)
Rizen : Raise (7,195)
mrbab : Fold
wino1 : Fold
316814 : Fold
thephen0m: Fold
sirio11 : Call (5,195)
*** FLOP *** : [ Jd 5c 4h ]
*** TURN *** : [ Jd 5c 4h ] [ 7h ]
*** RIVER *** : [ Jd 5c 4h 7h ] [ Th ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 16,040 | Board: [ Jd 5c 4h 7h Th ]
The Survivor lost 50 (folded)
shoptiludrop lost 50 (folded)
kde600sl lost 50 (folded)
sirio11 lost 7,245 (showed hand) [ Qh Ks ] (high card king)
Rizen bet 7,245, collected 16,040, net +8,795 (showed hand) [ Ah 8h ] (a flush, ace high)
mrbab lost 50 (folded)
wino1 lost 50 (folded)
316814 lost 450 (folded)
thephen0m lost 850 (folded)

[billyjex]

I think you played it fine. You have to call getting those odds I think.

I don't like Rizen's push. You are going to be priced in with a lot of hands.. I think he can find a better spot.

I agree with billy.

Both plays are fine. I'm guessing you were basically pot commited getting around 2:1 ish on your money, plus you don't want to be left with 10BB, this is a good chance to basically double through.. Rizen's range is bigger since he has <10BB and could be getting to desperation so KQ gains a lil value.

I don't mind Rizen's play either, i think i'm pushing with any ace with his stack.

[Rizen]

I'll get into this a bit later, but let's just say there were a couple of factors here that lead me to push that aren't conveyed through the hand history. I'll post when I bust.

-Rizen

[Exitonly]

Your raise: I like it, i open my raising standards up a bit later on cause i feel like i take the blinds down more often.. and when you do it's more substantial. I'd fold if a big stack pushed, and call a shorter stack. Like Rizen's.

His Raise: I don't especially like it.. less than 10bb's, but that doesnt mean to go nuts or anything, just means you play the next hand for all your chips. I just dont think you have much fold equity here, as sirio will be getting better than 2:1 and he's not in a typical steal position. I think ATs or AJo is what i start pushing here. or 77+

Your call: Like it, 2+:1 is good enouogh for me here. Except, now that i wrote all this out.. if Rizen is pushing the range i think he should be pushing (77+ AJo+ ATs+) then you're getting the right odds to call.

But now is where it gets wierd and starts to hurt my brain.. Sirio knows Rizen is only pushing good cards, but Rizen knows Sirio knows Rizen is pushing, so if Rizen starts folding ATs then Sirio isn't getting the right odds to call, and Rizen makes money, so he adjusts his range, then Sirio anticipates that and changes HIS options. a;dlfja;ldskjf hands where we know both people are the best, we need more of these.

[Rizen]

Okay, here is my perspective.

There were ~95 players left at the time, 70 got paid. The blinds were scheduled to go up soon enough I felt like they would go up by the time my hand got around. At 500/1000 I knew the blinds would eat me up and I would be forced to either play a hand in the BB/SB or end up very short after the blinds went by.

With all that in mind I like A8s a lot more. I also (correctly) included hands in Sirio's range that I was ahead of. Also, knowing that Sirio knows (or at least I believe he feels this way) I am a fairly solid, tight player I felt like there were some hands in his range I had FE against.

I felt all of these things combined made it a clear push. My only real fear in this decision was that someone to act behind me would wake up with a hand.

I was perfectly willing to bubble here since I felt pushing gave me a chance to go deep. I busted 11th to bubble the final table though [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

-Rizen

[ QUOTE ]
I felt like there were some hands in his range I had FE against.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are these hands?

[Rizen]

[ QUOTE ]
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I felt like there were some hands in his range I had FE against.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are these hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some of the lower PPs. I'll admit I didn't have MUCH fold equity, but I didn't feel the FE was 0 either.

-Rizen

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I felt like there were some hands in his range I had FE against.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are these hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some of the lower PPs. I'll admit I didn't have MUCH fold equity, but I didn't feel the FE was 0 either.

-Rizen

[/ QUOTE ]

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 60.5914 % 60.27% 00.32% { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 2: 39.4086 % 39.08% 00.32% { 2c2s }