funky JTs, SH, juicing, spew, etc...

#1 11-14-2005, 01:42 PM

SB is maniac (80/40) after about 10 hands
the others are calling stations, but bet when they have a made hand.

I decided to pre-flop LRR for equity as everyone was already in.
Is my flop raise good, or spewage? I have 2+4+1.5 outs, and I'd like free turn card. free card play isn't good against aggros tho.
Turn raise is standard me thinks.
I take the free SD. Do I call a river bet, pot is gynormous?

PokerRoom 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 handed) PokerRoom Converter at BonusHunting.net

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB raises, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (20 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 20 BB

MrWookie47 · #2 11-14-2005, 01:46 PM

If he's a maniac, you're not getting a free river very often. Additionally, I don't think JTs has enough of an equity edge 4 ways to warrant the LRR. I guess you do have the equity 4 handed to raise that turn for value. However, calling and letting the maniac bet into you on the river so you can raise when you hit is likely more +EV than raising the turn while still likely drawing.

Doc7 · #3 11-14-2005, 01:49 PM

I don't raise the turn, is that really standard?

if you DIDN'T raise the turn,
I don't call a SB bet on the river, I'm almost positive he has you beat, bet or no bet. the way the BB and UTG+2 played the hand I think they have a pretty wide range that beats you, i don't know how tight they are preflop but it could be suited weak aces or kings, anything else they bet with probably has 10 jack kicker beat on that river.

i think the way you played it you have to call a river bet if you're last to act, not sure about how to handle it if anyone besides SB bets out, he might be trying a funky C/R here.

going back, i also don't like the flop raise. you know he's a "maniac" and he'll likely raise, do you really want to already have put in 6 small bets before the turn with this hand?

edit: I may be weak tight?

Koss · #4 11-14-2005, 01:50 PM

Why are you trying for a free turn card against a maniac. He'll probably just 3-bet and you'll pay dearly for your weak draw. Those guys calling along probably have something better than you do. Wait until you make a hand before going to war here.

I'm not sure about the turn raise being "standard." You "may" have the SB beat. If UTG+2 and BB have you beat, you'll find out when they call the river. I just call the turn and don't overcall the river. If you just call the turn the SB might fire again, and you trap the field for 2 bets with your flush/straight. If you miss you don't lose any more money unless the SB bets and it's folded to you, then you can look him up.

#5 11-14-2005, 01:59 PM

5 hands later...maybe my own maniac table image is paying off...

PokerRoom 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) PokerRoom Converter at BonusHunting.net

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB calls (all-in).

Turn: (15.65 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, SB calls.

River: (18.65 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 20.65 BB

Edit: BB is the maniac from previous hand.

Aaron W. · #6 11-14-2005, 01:59 PM

If you want to LRR the maniac, do it with hands that you're comfortable showing down UI at the river. You're going to bloat the pot, he's going to keep betting at you, and you don't want to be chasing cards.

Flop raise is pretty bad because the callers could very well have you beat. The turn raise is close, but you don't have enough outs 4-ways to make it an equity raise. You've got 9 flush outs and 2-2.5 straight outs (because of the spade flush and the chop possibilities). You also have some reverse implied odds in effect if you hit a jack and maniac bets, because you're going to call based on the pot size. I'd give you about 10-11 outs overall.

#7 11-14-2005, 02:03 PM

Yeah, the straight outs aren't very clean, and I guess my turn raise was not so standard! You all pegged this hand right on.

irishpint · #8 11-14-2005, 02:44 PM

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However, calling and letting the maniac bet into you on the river so you can raise when you hit is likely more +EV than raising the turn while still likely drawing.

[/ QUOTE ]