Religion Has Done More Harm Than Good

#1 10-12-2005, 11:30 AM

To the people on this forum who are debating whether religion has done more harm than good, here are three points I would like you to consider:

1. Many of you seem to attribute every charitable deed done by religious people to their religiousity. I don't see it. If these people were all atheists and agnostics and the Tsunami hit or Hurricane Katrina, would they all turn away and not help their fellow man? I don't think so. If you think they would, then you have a very deep misconception about the nature of atheists and agnostics. And if you think that all religious people would help out, then you also have a deep misconception of religious people.
2. While I contend the majority of good deeds would still occur even without religion being involved, the opposite is not true. You would almost never see "religious heretics" burned at stakes were it not for religion. Religious fervor is probably at the heart of over 90% of the large scale human vs. human atrocities this planet has ever seen. Take religion out of the equation and you don't have Islamic suicide bombers. Study human history and you will see that this same concept of killing infidels for a promised reward in the afterlife has shed enough blood to fill an ocean.
3. I believe that in a previous thread Sklansky mentioned that religion is good for "Prisoner's Dilemma" reasons. I don't see how this applies to religion but doesn't to atheists and agnostics. Couldn't atheists and agnostics also treat each other decently for prisoner's dilemma reasons. Wouldn't their long-term self interests which also include their interests in the welfare of their progeny also fall under this prisoner's dilemma framework. Maybe I don't understand the implications of the prisoner's dilemma example well enough to see its exclusive tie in to religion because how I understand it now, I just don't see it.

vulturesrow · #2 10-12-2005, 11:43 AM

<blockquote>En respuesta a:<hr />
While I contend the majority of good deeds would still occur even without religion being involved, the opposite is not true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mao and Stalin come to mind immediately.

TomCollins · #3 10-12-2005, 11:46 AM

I'm getting pretty sick of these "Mao/Stalin" arguments. They never killed for the sake of athiesm. They killed for power. Is it that hard to see?

#4 10-12-2005, 11:54 AM

1. I agree to a point, however I believe religion does result in more charitable work and good deeds overall.

2. Religion has been a cause of many wars, no doubt. But I think it has also helped build civilizations and has had a civilizing influence in general.

3. The basis of morality is not religion or God, even if God does exist. Even some religious scholars agree with this point. But it undoubtedly helps guide some people toward good deeds and moral behaviour, at the cost of imprisoning their mind and soul.

Overall I think the harm of Christianity, Islam, and other weird religions is more subtle than the wars they cause. It goes back to fact that we're indoctrinating children to believe in silly fairytales, and stunting their spiritual, emotional and intellectual growth as a result. Put simply, religion dulls reason, courage and curiosity about this mysterious universe. What effects this has on society is open for debate.

Note that this doesn't apply to religions like Buddhism.

#5 10-12-2005, 12:07 PM

I would interject that some of the meditative philosophies (Tao, some forms of Buddhism) can lead to an over-abundance of self inflection, to the point of becoming damn near a hermit.

But I agree about imprisoning the mind. Ever since I saw my way clear of Catholicism, I am a much more independant person, more willing to go out on a limb for my beliefs and honestly, more rebellious, which I think is a good thing.

Basically I think that the world's religions are there to give different people different reasons to be a good person. Personally, all I need to be a good person (I hope) is my brain. I really dont care what it is that does it for you: if you're a good person, that's all that matters to me.

Zygote · #6 10-12-2005, 12:51 PM

and scientific progress was impeded for well over a millennium.

Zygote · #7 10-12-2005, 12:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But I think it has also helped build civilizations and has had a civilizing influence in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

please be more specific.

vulturesrow · #8 10-12-2005, 01:17 PM

<blockquote>En respuesta a:<hr />
<blockquote>En respuesta a:<hr />
But I think it has also helped build civilizations and has had a civilizing influence in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

please be more specific.

[/ QUOTE ]

Start with the formation and preservation of Western Civilization as we know it.

Zygote · #9 10-12-2005, 01:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But I think it has also helped build civilizations and has had a civilizing influence in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

please be more specific.

[/ QUOTE ]

Start with the formation and preservation of Western Civilization as we know it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please be more specific. give specific examples.

RJT · #10 10-12-2005, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
and scientific progress was impeded for well over a millennium.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that matters because...?