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#1
08-02-2005, 03:58 PM
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Conceeded Pot?
Here was the scene from the other night:
Ive got QJ, early position, against a midposition limper flop comes down J-J-T I bet 5 dollars, he raises 5, i call turn is a 7 I check, he bets 10, i raise 25, he reraises me my last 15 dollars, i call Heres where the fun begins: He flips J-9, the trips with a lower kicker, I show my QJ the turn is an 8, making his gutshot straight draw, but nobody realizes it. This is exactly how it went down: Hes like OOOH so close...wait, i have a ....7...8...9...o wait no..(trails off)....nice hand...it was what? 15 more? <flips me 40 dollars in chips to cover my all in> Chips are all over the place cause it happened so fast, cards are all over the place, people are standing, all that kinda stuff---i start taking down the pot, i flip over a few cards as I grab chips, the next person grabs the deck to start shuffling, as i stack my chips.... Now the cards are in the air....i know because i had already looked at my 6h for my first card and someone said heey....wait a second and we proceeded to relive the entire hand, and finally everyone realized he had a straight.... everyone demanded that i give him the pot, which i reluctantly did...now that im thinking about it though, the next hand had started, the cards were all gone, should i have given him back that pot? 
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#2
08-02-2005, 04:24 PM
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Re: Conceeded Pot?
this question is asked so often in one form or another. The answer is always the same..
it depends. How serious of a game is this? would you expect him to return it to you? are these friends, or just people you know? do you play with them often? take all of this into account when you make your decision. You can now rest assured that you are deserved the same treatment if you make a similar mistake, it's up to you, but you have to weigh in all of these options. as far as 'the rules' go, well, they depend on location as well, but basically, that hand is long over and it's your pot.
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#3
08-02-2005, 05:50 PM
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Re: Conceeded Pot?
The cards talk. This means he won the pot, whether he knew it or not.
The chips were pushed to you by mistake, and you should return the pot to the rightful winner.
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#4
08-02-2005, 06:41 PM
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Re: Conceeded Pot?
[ QUOTE ]
Ive got QJ, early position [/ QUOTE ] And you saw a flop. This explains why you lost all your money. The situation however, hmmmm. Cards do speak and he turned them over so it is his pot rightfully. Since the hand was mucked I know it's tough to give it up but I still think it's his. However he, and the person dealing, are idiots for not noticing it before. Oh well, better luck next time. Take care, Matt
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#5
08-06-2005, 09:51 PM
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Re: Conceeded Pot?
[ QUOTE ]
should i have given him back that pot? [/ QUOTE ] Oy! Tough one. No one can answer this question for you. I'm not sure how they settle stuff like this at a casino, maybe go to the camera or something like that. If the guy flipped his cards face-up, I guess they go to the camera and try to figure out pot size / award it to the correct player. At a game without a camera, I'd say the pot is yours. It's up to you what to do, though.
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#6
08-07-2005, 05:50 AM
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Re: Conceeded Pot?
at a casino the face up cards go to the dealers possesion and he shows the best five card hand for the winner, so its rare this would have happened. And my take on the situation is that once the cards have been flipped into the muck no matter if he can retrieve them or not they are dead and cannot be retrieved and the pot would be yours, we also play some rules like that very tight but other rules very loose.
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#7
08-07-2005, 08:04 AM
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Re: Conceeded Pot?
Cards talk and you know he had the best hand. If you saw the straight you could have avoided all this by saying nice hand and pointing out the fact that he actually won.
Just play fair.
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#8
08-07-2005, 11:49 AM
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Re: Conceeded Pot?
[ QUOTE ]
Cards talk and you know he had the best hand. If you saw the straight you could have avoided all this by saying nice hand and pointing out the fact that he actually won. Just play fair. [/ QUOTE ] The OP says NO ONE saw it at the time the hand went down, not even him. So he is playing fair, he just accidently took the wrong pot. At the 2000 WSOP, something similar happened (see Hellmuth's second book or McManus's book) Someone was all-in and was outkicked, yet the hand should have been a chop. The guy leaves the table (since he 'lost') and comes back after Hellmuth informed him. The next hand was about to start, so they figured out the last hand and gave the guy his chips. (Still finished same place I think)
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#9
08-07-2005, 02:24 PM
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Re: Conceeded Pot?
[ QUOTE ]
Here was the scene from the other night: Ive got QJ, early position, against a midposition limper flop comes down J-J-T I bet 5 dollars, he raises 5, i call turn is a 7 I check, he bets 10, i raise 25, he reraises me my last 15 dollars, i call Heres where the fun begins: He flips J-9, the trips with a lower kicker, I show my QJ the turn is an 8, making his gutshot straight draw, but nobody realizes it. This is exactly how it went down: Hes like OOOH so close...wait, i have a ....7...8...9...o wait no..(trails off)....nice hand...it was what? 15 more? <flips me 40 dollars in chips to cover my all in [/ QUOTE ] With his description of the hand and his memory of what was said and how it was said "This is exactly how it went down: Hes like OOOH so close...wait, i have a ....7...8...9...o wait no..(trails off)....nice hand...it was what? 15 more?" I figured the OP would have seen that there was a straight since all the cards were exposed. Maybe slowing down the game a little would make it easier to figure out what everyone is betting and what they have. It could get chaotic if what he describes here happens every hand. "Chips are all over the place cause it happened so fast, cards are all over the place, people are standing, all that kinda stuff---i start taking down the pot, i flip over a few cards as I grab chips, the next person grabs the deck to start shuffling, as i stack my chips...." IMO
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#10
08-07-2005, 05:07 PM
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Re: Conceeded Pot?
[ QUOTE ]
but basically, that hand is long over and it's your pot. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think this is correct. In a game with a camera, they would review the hand and award the chips to the straight (if he did indeed have it). In your game, I say if you all agree he had a straight, and you seem to agree, you said the 8 completed his gutshot, then it is (rightfully) his pot.
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