Few 6 max Questions

[Mercman572]

Like a few others here I'm trying to make the transition. Only played 830 hands so far and at the 25 NL tables so it's definitely been interesting.

It seems I've been running impossibly hot, but at the same time the players seem so terrible. Anyways here are a few I would like some discussion on

1. what do you look for in a 6 max table (vp$IP etc) before i looked for vpip, but it seems the tight tables are pretty bad as well and often very predictable. right now the tables are all soft, but what about as you move up?

2. what kind of numbers are "good." I know its a subjective thing, but I can get a grasp on the hand range from them so this will be particularly helpful if you recommend them for 50NL and 100NL bc I plan to be on those levels within the next week or two as soon as I get the feel. Right now mine are:

VP$IP 32, PFR% 15, VPIfromSB 40, folded to steal sb 91, bb 50
Att to steal 33%, W$WSF 39, WTSD 19, W$atSD 59

3. I know it is more, but how does variance compare to full ring? My SD for full ring was on 42PTBB/100... should you expect like a 20 or so BB addition or is that too much?

4. I remember from one of fim's posts a while ago that hand values normalize and position rules. I find myself up in the air on my actions as far as playing marginal hands. When the blinds are tight I should be looking to steal? When the blinds are BAD should I be looking to isolate with almost any hand to outplay him? Should I be raising K10o from MP because a person behind me is decent and i want him out to have position on the blinds that are donks? Etc., etc. I know thats hard to answer and lots of hands will be posted in the future for me to clarify, but if there is any general rule of thumb that'd be sweet.

5. I know its a cheezy question, but what kind of winrate ballpark figure can the best players (top 10%) expect to make from the 50s and 100NL? For full ring I'd say 10 PTBB/100 for the 50's and 8 for the 100s, but feel these numbers can be hard since the nature of 6max allows your opponents to make many more mistakes.

Thanks guys, I think i have a few more that I forgot.

[Malachii]

[ QUOTE ]
1. what do you look for in a 6 max table (vp$IP etc) before i looked for vpip, but it seems the tight tables are pretty bad as well and often very predictable. right now the tables are all soft, but what about as you move up?

[/ QUOTE ] Loose tables are best. $50 is easy. I think the transition from $50 to $100 is a little bit of a struggle. From what I've heard the transition from $100 to $200 is pretty smooth, but the transition from $200 to $400 is more difficult. This is all second hand information though.

[ QUOTE ]
2. what kind of numbers are "good." I know its a subjective thing, but I can get a grasp on the hand range from them so this will be particularly helpful if you recommend them for 50NL and 100NL bc I plan to be on those levels within the next week or two as soon as I get the feel.

[/ QUOTE ]
Depends. 20/10 is good. I think you're too loose, although you can probably make it work for you at $25.

[ QUOTE ]

3. I know it is more, but how does variance compare to full ring? My SD for full ring was on 42PTBB/100... should you expect like a 20 or so BB addition or is that too much?

[/ QUOTE ] I'm not really a stats guy. 6max does have more variance, I've had two monster drawdowns in the last 4 month period.

[ QUOTE ]
4. I remember from one of fim's posts a while ago that hand values normalize and position rules. I find myself up in the air on my actions as far as playing marginal hands. When the blinds are tight I should be looking to steal? When the blinds are BAD should I be looking to isolate with almost any hand to outplay him? Should I be raising K10o from MP because a person behind me is decent and i want him out to have position on the blinds that are donks? Etc., etc. I know thats hard to answer and lots of hands will be posted in the future for me to clarify, but if there is any general rule of thumb that'd be sweet.

[/ QUOTE ] This is really very general and vague and difficult to respond to. Yes, you want to raise more hands against tight blinds. Yes, you want to raise weak limpers with anything decent to isolate - it's a very profitable situation. But try to do this from cutoff or the button.

[ QUOTE ]
5. I know its a cheezy question, but what kind of winrate ballpark figure can the best players (top 10%) expect to make from the 50s and 100NL? For full ring I'd say 10 PTBB/100 for the 50's and 8 for the 100s, but feel these numbers can be hard since the nature of 6max allows your opponents to make many more mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ] I think 8 would be excellent.

[Mercman572]

First of all thanks so much for this quality reply.

[ QUOTE ]
Depends. 20/10 is good. I think you're too loose, although you can probably make it work for you at $25.


[/ QUOTE ]

Really? My 100NL full ring was 16/6 and that felt ridiculously tight. Naturally I expect numbers to fall as I move up and I have to give credit to raisors, but as other people's play tightens up its more of a reason to steal no? A VPIP of 20 seems a little too obvious since most times you're not playing A10 or AJ but I don't know the implications of raising potentially dominated hands in 6max just yet (and I think it will take at least until the 50's till opponents have me realize).

OH, my other question was :

<font color="red"> 6MAXer's, HOW MANY TABLES DO YOU PLAY AT ONCE???? </font>

i have been playing 4 but I realize that I haven't gotten perfect reads because of it. I've just been playing as I used to in short handed tourny stages with regard to playing position and table image when deciding what hands to raise (along with player reads of course).

How often should I be completing from small blind?

[Hoopster81]

[ QUOTE ]
6MAXer's, HOW MANY TABLES DO YOU PLAY AT ONCE????

[/ QUOTE ]

I also recently switched from full-ring to 6-max. I used to play 10 full-ring games at once, and am currently playing 7 6-max.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
6MAXer's, HOW MANY TABLES DO YOU PLAY AT ONCE????

[/ QUOTE ]

I also recently switched from full-ring to 6-max. I used to play 10 full-ring games at once, and am currently playing 7 6-max.

[/ QUOTE ]

We played at the same table today at 100NL I think.

[Malachii]

[ QUOTE ]
Really? My 100NL full ring was 16/6 and that felt ridiculously tight.

[/ QUOTE ] 16/6 is probably about right actually. The tight nut/peddling strategy is very difficult to beat long term, which is part of the reason why I transitioned back over to 6max.

[ QUOTE ]
A VPIP of 20 seems a little too obvious since most times you're not playing A10 or AJ but I don't know the implications of raising potentially dominated hands in 6max just yet (and I think it will take at least until the 50's till opponents have me realize).

[/ QUOTE ] AJ is a definite raise. Likewise with KQ. AT and KJ are more questionable.

[ QUOTE ]
6MAXer's, HOW MANY TABLES DO YOU PLAY AT ONCE????

[/ QUOTE ]
For me this really depends on how I'm running. If I'm running bad I'll play 1 or 2 and really focus on playing well, if I'm running good I'll play 4.
[ QUOTE ]
How often should I be completing from small blind?

[/ QUOTE ] This really depends on how many players are in the pot... with more players complete with more, with maybe one limper you want to be very selective about completing. It probably doesn't really matter all that much TBH, but I'd say a number somewhere in the mid twenties to thirties is fine. Lower is probably better though. Hope this helps.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
First of all thanks so much for this quality reply.

[ QUOTE ]
Depends. 20/10 is good. I think you're too loose, although you can probably make it work for you at $25.


[/ QUOTE ]

Really? My 100NL full ring was 16/6 and that felt ridiculously tight. Naturally I expect numbers to fall as I move up and I have to give credit to raisors, but as other people's play tightens up its more of a reason to steal no? A VPIP of 20 seems a little too obvious since most times you're not playing A10 or AJ but I don't know the implications of raising potentially dominated hands in 6max just yet (and I think it will take at least until the 50's till opponents have me realize).

OH, my other question was :

<font color="red"> 6MAXer's, HOW MANY TABLES DO YOU PLAY AT ONCE???? </font>

i have been playing 4 but I realize that I haven't gotten perfect reads because of it. I've just been playing as I used to in short handed tourny stages with regard to playing position and table image when deciding what hands to raise (along with player reads of course).

How often should I be completing from small blind?

[/ QUOTE ]

I play almost exactly 20/10. (19.6/9.4 right now). It seems to work pretty well at least up into the 100s.

I usually play one table when I move to a new limit. As I get comfortable with the games/stakes and my bankroll grows a little I'll add a second. Once I'm properly rolled (I usually take a shot with 15 buy-ins and consider myself properly rolled when I hit 30 buy-ins) I'll add a third and fourth.

As far as completing from the small blind, I'll do it with PPs, SCs and Axs, looking for a big flop. Drawing out of position can suck though sometimes. Other than that I'll almost always raise AA-JJ, AK and AQs. Depending on the table I'll complete with AJs, AQo, KQ, and sometimes QJ. Position is super important at 6 max so you don't want to be playing marginal hands from the SB unless you're very disciplined about laying down what could be the best hand.

[Hoopster81]

[ QUOTE ]
We played at the same table today at 100NL I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

My Party handle isn't anything like my handle here, and I am still grinding the 50s, but I am sure it would have been fun if we had [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We played at the same table today at 100NL I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

My Party handle isn't anything like my handle here, and I am still grinding the 50s, but I am sure it would have been fun if we had [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.. just looked it up... it was Hoopster31. Funny.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
10 PTBB/100 for the 50's and 8 for the 100s

[/ QUOTE ]
Excuse me. NL Newbie here and trying to figure out the PTBB thing.

From what I'm gathering a PTBB is equal to 2 regular BB. Is that right?

And if so, then...

10 PTBB/100 @ 50NL = $10/100 which is figured by 2 x 10BB x $.50 =$10.00 ?

and

8PTBB/100 @ 100NL would = $16/100hands?

Thanks.