The nuts with the nut redraw, was it played correctly?

comic2b · #1 03-05-2003, 06:23 PM

I'm dealt A7c5sJh in the big blind. I get a free pass. 5 people see the flop, SB folds. The flop comes 2c3c4d. My dream flop, I've got the wheel and the nut flush draw. I lead bet, I believe an excellent move. I get three callers, and the next person raises. I put them on a wheel as well. I know I have to act quickly, and decide to raise. All three other people folded.

I'm thinking that what I am afraid of is two pair and sets behind me. By making it two additional bets, combinded with the possibility that they are trapped they will fold. If I just call I might get one to three other callers, yes the game can be kinda loose. I know the first to act will call and that might influence the other two.

I thought about just smooth calling to trap the others, because it doesn't get much stronger than this.

beernutz · #2 03-05-2003, 06:38 PM

Was this limit or PL/NL?

Buzz · #3 03-06-2003, 01:39 AM

Comic2b - "I get three callers, and the next person raises. I put them on a wheel as well."

Reasonable. But isn't a six high straight just as reasonable? And how about a wheel plus a six high straight? Isn't that reasonable too?

If your five high straight is the current leader for high, then it makes some sense for you to try to protect it by re-raising so that the three limpers are faced with an imposing double bet. But if the original raiser has a six high straight, then that's who you are protecting with you re-raise, and if any one with a non-nut low or non-nut flush draw folds to the double bet, then you have taken away from your own profits.

You don't have your flush yet (and, although you do have a decent draw, the odds are against the board flushing here). Thus protecting your possible flush is pre-mature. Instead, you should want as many opponents as possible when you are drawing for the nut flush (and also when you have made and are playing the nut low).

On the bright side, you wanted to limit the field with your re-raise and your ploy worked perfectly.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

chaos · #4 03-06-2003, 09:39 AM

Reraising with the one way nut is often incorrect in split pot games. If the other players between you and the raiser fold you will not make any money from them. You will be left splitting the pot with the raiser. If the pot is already large and your hand is vulnerable this may be what you desire.

In your situation the pot is still small since it was not raised preflop. You nut low is not very vulnerable as you can not get counterfeited. A 5 is your worst card as you will likely end up sharing the low half with other live Aces.

I would not raise here and hope to get additional money in the pot. I'd wait for my flush to come in before I'd start the jamming.

comic2b · #5 03-07-2003, 05:23 PM

Thanks for all of your advice people. Next time I will wait to jam. What happened? The turn is the 9c giving me the nuts. The river is the 9s, pairing the board. If I got a set to fold or a wheel card 9 to fold I guess it worked out. EVEN thought it was the wrong play.

The final question. We were actually playing Tommy a 5 card variant of Omaha, so there are a lot more hands out against you. Since this was the case does the play remain the same?

Buzz · #6 03-07-2003, 06:18 PM

"We were actually playing Tommy a 5 card variant of Omaha, so there are a lot more hands out against you. Since this was the case does the play remain the same?"

Comic2b - Off the top of my head, seems all the more reason to not play the hand quite as fast. With five cards in the hands of your opponents, you are even more likely to be protecting someone with 65XXX (a six high straight). Plus you still don't have your flush yet.

Your raise doesn't drop anyone with the same nut low as you, but rather may drop the non-nut lows. Similarly, your raise doesn't drop anyone with the nut flush draw (which only you have), but rather may drop the non-nut flush draws.

It's true that your raise tends to protect your wheel, but if you figure to be splitting a very small pot with another wheel, there's not much to protect.

I think you want to go for a bigger share of a bigger pot here. There is the same (relatively low) chance of the board pairing regardless of the number of cards in each player's individual hand. You should be hoping the board flushes in your suit and does not pair. You should want as many customers as possible for the foregoing scenario.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

iblucky4u2 · #7 03-08-2003, 12:28 AM

I know you are joking with us - you are only dealt 4 cards so your hand would be dead in a 5 card game [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Another reason for you to not raise is you also have the nut str8 draw with a 6. With so many outs to go with your great low, let them put their $ into your pocket.