A preflop decision that I didn't know how to deal with

[AlmightyJay]

I think some of my biggest leaks come from mid pocket pairs that I don't play ideally. Here's a situation that came up when I was playing yesterday. At the time I didn't know much about the villian, he had only sat down within the past orbit or so. I've got 58 hands with him now and he's 37.93/3.45/0.51.

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="blue">Hero...?</font>

I feel like this is a 3-bet or fold situation, but I don't feel comfortable playing a marginal hand like 88 postflop after I 3-bet. Advise me please [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Entity]

I'd 3-bet. You've got a good hand (not a marginal hand), initiative, and position.

Rob

[elbuddha]

Since the raise came from your immediate right, and therefore there are no callers between you, you are correct that this is a raise or fold situation - cold calling here would be bad.

3-betting is asking for everyone else to get out of the way and for the hand to be played heads-up. You will not be looking to spike a set. You are expecting that your pocket pair stands up unimproved agaist whatever villian raised with. Since it was folded to villian, there is an increased possibility that he is raising lightly rather than with a premium hand and will not connect with the flop. You also have position, and can use villian's reaction to your 3-bet and his flop action to help determine your standing and your line.

As for what your line should be assuming it goes headsup to the flop: since you have position I don't think there's anything wrong with just making sure a bet goes in on every street - bet if checked to, call if bet into. Re-assess if you get checkraised or are bet into on a very scary board. Variations you could consider depending upon circumstances include taking a free-card on the turn to get a cheap showdown or induce a bluff, or checking behind on the river if checked to - but these should probably only be used if you have become convinced you can't bet for value but are not convinced enough to fold.

If your 3-bet gets cold-callers from the blinds, you are still in good shape but things get more complicated. Again, position helps. You still have a not-insignificant chance of your pocket pair holding up against the raiser and one blind, but might have to respect aggression from them depending upon the board. If both blinds come along, you stand less of a chance that you will hold up unimproved - but remember that if the blinds don't connect with the flop they will probably be looking for a reason to fold, which is good for your pocket pair and will hopefully leave you heads up with the raiser with more dead money in the pot - therefore if the raiser bets into you on the flop you should probably raise if you plan to continue with the hand in order to face the blind(s) with 2 bets.

[DeadRed]

This type of post is exactly the reason I would like to see a distinction made between "micro" and "nano"* limit. I don't think a separate board is warranted for each, but IMO there is more of a difference between .02/.04 and .50/1 than between .50/1 and 2/4.

Many will tell you to 3-bet this hand, and at .50/1 or even .25/.50, I concur wholeheartedly. However, I'm afraid that the main reason for 3-betting (to thin the field and gain position, correct pros?) often doesn't work at the .02/.04 level. I've found, working my way up through .02/.04, .05/.10, .10/.20 to my current .25/.50 games, that at nano-limits players are more likely to play any ace (sometimes any face) for multiple bets. "It's only 6 cents to see a flop", they'll say. This, of course, is bad poker on their part. They should be thinking in terms of bets, not $$$ amounts, and you should be able to take advantage of this. But in my experience, this hand is not the time to do so at .02/.04.

Take advantage of passiveness preflop. There are an increased number of hands you can limp with for 1 bet. The fact that more players will call raises and re-raises when you have overpairs, TPTK, and sets should earn you many BBs. But remember up to .10/.20 you will often be required to show the best hand, and often to more than 1 opponent.

All this being said, I have made this raise on ocassion at nano-limits, to test the players between me and the button. If they all fold to 3 bets, you may be the type of table where this play is possible, but I found too often that the coldcaller(s) keep me from using position on the original raiser to my advantage.

Disclaimer: I have not yet read SSH, so I apologize in advance if this goes against anything Mr. Miller says [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

* Nano-limit is a term that I adopted from a 2+2er for non-raked games. I use it for .10/.20 and lower limits.

[AlmightyJay]

Wow, thanks for the extremely detailed response, elbuddha!

After thinking about it on the table, I 3-bet. I figured 88 was just too good to throw away in that situation, plus I had position on the PFR. Care to comment on the rest of the hand?

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.

<font color="blue">Hmm, raiser just calls. That makes me think overcards or a passively played 99-JJ</font>

Flop: (15 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, MP2 calls.

<font color="blue">Check-call by PFR on the flop makes me sure he has overcards. But the calls by button and BB make me scared of one of them holding a T. Still, no raise..</font>

Turn: (9.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, BB folds, MP2 calls.

<font color="blue">Seems standard. If I get raised I probably call and release on the river</font>

River: (12.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP2 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

<font color="blue">If button was chasing a flush draw, it just came in. Bet this river?</font>
Final Pot: 12.50 BB

[callydrias]

[ QUOTE ]
If button was chasing a flush draw, it just came in. Bet this river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet the river. There's no more reason to be scared of the flush draw than of someone holding a T, but you bet the flop and turn anyway [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[elbuddha]

I don't bet the river, but not necessarily because of the flush draw.

The preflop raiser is still around. He either has unimproved overcards and will fold, or a better pocket pair and won't.

As for the flush draw, I want to see the showdown but don't want to pay off a raise. I'm a wuss on the river though. The correct line is probably to bet and fold to a raise.

[AlmightyJay]

Thanks everyone. It's pretty reassuring to find that I played this hand fairly well.

Button turned over ATo and MP2 turned over QQ [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]. MHING.

[scotty34]

Really good post regarding micro vs nano. I agree with what you are saying. Given that however, what is your play given the scenario Hero has given? Fold?

BTW

[ QUOTE ]
Disclaimer: I have not yet read SSH, so I apologize in advance if this goes against anything Mr. Miller says

[/ QUOTE ]

Hilarious. This man is becoming a God.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
I think some of my biggest leaks come from mid pocket pairs that I don't play ideally. Here's a situation that came up when I was playing yesterday. At the time I didn't know much about the villian, he had only sat down within the past orbit or so. I've got 58 hands with him now and he's 37.93/3.45/0.51.

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="blue">Hero...?</font>


[/ QUOTE ]

If you're not comfortable going for the kill, fold, because this is a tough hand to play, even with position.