AKo, Flopped the 2 pair, Should I have just let it go!

Fishwhenican · #1 01-17-2005, 01:45 PM

This is pretty early in the session and so I do not have any solid reads yet. Should I have let it go on the turn or just held on to the end like I did just in case??
I am guessing I should have raised the flop but just was put off by the bet and wanted to wait and see what happened on the turn. (Translation .. chicken)
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG raises, Hero calls, Button folds, BB 3-bets, UTG caps, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (18.20 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20.60 BB

Bez · #2 01-17-2005, 01:49 PM

Raise the flop.
Turn - I do not know without any reads.
Fold the river.

royaltrux · #3 01-17-2005, 01:50 PM

Yeah a raise on the flop is the best play here. Unforunately no one with the straight draw is folding. When they go berserk on the turn and river you're pretty much beat. But it is a big pot so.............

Bez · #4 01-17-2005, 01:53 PM

Turn - I don't know what to do with a read either. That action is nasty. Once you call the first 2 bets you've got odds for a draw so definitely call the last 2.

EliteNinja · #5 01-17-2005, 01:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am guessing I should have raised the flop but just was put off by the bet and wanted to wait and see what happened on the turn. (Translation .. chicken)

[/ QUOTE ]

lol.

Actually, it's not too bad to only call the flop. Your hand is vulnerable to a straight draw and a flush draw. BUT at this point, A RAISE WILL NOT PROTECT YOUR HAND since the pot is already so large.

You will need to see the turn card before you make any move. If the card does not complete a straight draw or flush draw (ie, a blank), you can bet/raise.

But since it was 2-bet to you on the turn, you can safely lay this one down. In fact, you should have totally folded on the turn there. You just cost yourself bigtime.
You're getting 4.6-to-1 odds to call there, not a big enough pot to call.

Messy Harry · #6 01-17-2005, 01:55 PM

Raise the flop. Fold the turn.

I say fold the turn becasue there is too much going on on the board (straight/flush possibilities) and the flop betting for you to confidently call when you are drawing somewhat thin. As happened, it got expensive to keep calling.

ajrenni · #7 01-17-2005, 01:58 PM

You absolutely needed to raise this flop - by calling, you allowed anyone behind you with a Jack to have correct odds to call. In general, when the person directly to your right bets like that, it is either raise or fold.

On the turn, you are probably behind, and you have only 4 outs to a full house. A Jack will result in a three way tie. So I don't think you have the odds to cold-call here.

EliteNinja · #8 01-17-2005, 02:01 PM

I say you have to give up a little EV on the flop here and just call. You can get a lot of EV on a blank turn. This is 0.25-0.50 we're talking about and people are willing to go too far with crappy hands.

Sacrifice small EV on the flop, gain lots on the turn if it's a good card. (you may even hit a flush redraw or even a full house)

On second thought, raise the flop. You've got some outs and you're raising for value. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

AngelicPenguin · #9 01-17-2005, 02:02 PM

I fold the turn. Your odds are reasonably close for a call to make a full house, but two things make this a fold for me. 1) Since it's a one card straight, the odds of it getting capped are pretty good and I don't want to pay two more big bets on my draw. 2) Since the card to make the straight is a J, it is much more likely in one or both of their holdings (also making it more likely for a cap.) Had the card necessary been a 5, I may make the call.

Entity · #10 01-17-2005, 02:06 PM

Yada yada yada, raise the flop, fold the turn. This should be pretty standard.

You're raising for value and protection, but mostly for value. On the turn you're a 10.5:1 dog getting 4.6:1 odds immediately and possibly facing a 3-bet/cap, so the decision should be super easy.

Rob