Bad move w/ draw?

[TruFloridaGator]

FullTiltPoker Game #200755357: $30 + $3 Sit & Go (1266475), Table 1 - 60/120 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:53:29 ET - 2005/08/29
Seat 1: comeback (3,320)
Seat 2: THEPATIOMAN (2,615)
Seat 5: maro1221 (2,100)
Seat 7: UrbanMeyer1 (2,570)
Seat 8: jonnyatari (2,895)
UrbanMeyer1 posts the small blind of 60
jonnyatari posts the big blind of 120
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to UrbanMeyer1 [Tc 9c]
comeback folds
THEPATIOMAN folds
maro1221 folds
UrbanMeyer1 calls 60
jonnyatari checks
*** FLOP *** [7s Qc 8c]
UrbanMeyer1 bets 240
jonnyatari raises to 480
UrbanMeyer1 raises to 2,450, and is all in
jonnyatari calls 1,970

[mlagoo]

You probably have 15 outs twice and you have fold equity. This seems pretty ok to me.

The only other real option, I guess, is to check-call the flop and turn (you can't really raise on the turn if you miss), but I don't really like that. I'd like to take it down on the flop.

[pergesu]

I would call here and check-raise all-in on the turn. Not sure if the min-raise is a test or means you don't have any FE (not that you really want any). But you don't really like a fold on his part, and check-raising the turn gets more chips in the pot, and you may be more likely to take it down right there, since it'll look less like you're on a draw. You don't mind getting your chips in on the turn, and getting a free card is a good result as well. All in all, you're in a pretty good situation.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
I would call here and check-raise all-in on the turn. Not sure if the min-raise is a test or means you don't have any FE (not that you really want any). But you don't really like a fold on his part, and check-raising the turn gets more chips in the pot, and you may be more likely to take it down right there, since it'll look less like you're on a draw. You don't mind getting your chips in on the turn, and getting a free card is a good result as well. All in all, you're in a pretty good situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I mean I agree with the pretty good situation assessment. But I hate check-pushing a turn that we miss. We've only got one card to come and we likely have less FE (more chips in the pot). =/

I guess I'm missing something, but I just would never make the turn where I make my move. If anything, I could see calling the flop and check-folding to a very big bet on the turn. And I hate having to do that, so I'd rather put it all in on the flop, hoping he folds, but figuring I'm somewhere around 50/50 if he doesn't.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would call here and check-raise all-in on the turn. Not sure if the min-raise is a test or means you don't have any FE (not that you really want any). But you don't really like a fold on his part, and check-raising the turn gets more chips in the pot, and you may be more likely to take it down right there, since it'll look less like you're on a draw. You don't mind getting your chips in on the turn, and getting a free card is a good result as well. All in all, you're in a pretty good situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I mean I agree with the pretty good situation assessment. But I hate check-pushing a turn that we miss. We've only got one card to come and we likely have less FE (more chips in the pot). =/

I guess I'm missing something, but I just would never make the turn where I make my move. If anything, I could see calling the flop and check-folding to a very big bet on the turn. And I hate having to do that, so I'd rather put it all in on the flop, hoping he folds, but figuring I'm somewhere around 50/50 if he doesn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're villain, and your opponent calls the min-raise on the flop and then check-raises all-in on the turn, what hands can you call with?

[TruFloridaGator]

Thought I had FE too, which is why I did it, but he had b2p.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would call here and check-raise all-in on the turn. Not sure if the min-raise is a test or means you don't have any FE (not that you really want any). But you don't really like a fold on his part, and check-raising the turn gets more chips in the pot, and you may be more likely to take it down right there, since it'll look less like you're on a draw. You don't mind getting your chips in on the turn, and getting a free card is a good result as well. All in all, you're in a pretty good situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I mean I agree with the pretty good situation assessment. But I hate check-pushing a turn that we miss. We've only got one card to come and we likely have less FE (more chips in the pot). =/

I guess I'm missing something, but I just would never make the turn where I make my move. If anything, I could see calling the flop and check-folding to a very big bet on the turn. And I hate having to do that, so I'd rather put it all in on the flop, hoping he folds, but figuring I'm somewhere around 50/50 if he doesn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're villain, and your opponent calls the min-raise on the flop and then check-raises all-in on the turn, what hands can you call with?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably depends on the turn card. If it's a rag, I will probably fold top pair (would depend on a read), but call with two pair or a set (or better). If it is an ace or a king, I might be able to find a fold with two pair (probably not), but would call with a set... I dunno. Definitely depends on the turn card though.

One bonus of the turn C/R is you might be able to fold a better flush draw. But heads up, you can probably be fairly comfortable your flush draw is best.