commerce is now dropping $4 per hand in the brown chip games

[snakehead]

today, the commerce started dropping up to $4/hand in their 30-60 and 40-80 games. they drop less if the game isn't full.

7 players: $3
6 players: $2
4 players: $1
no flop: $1

rumor is that very soon they will be using shuffling machines in all of their holdem games, so they will actually make more off of the drop than a time collection. until then, they are taking less out of these games than they did with a collection.

[HiatusOver]

Interesting stuff thanks for the info Snake. What about the 80? Still time? How many more hands per hour do you think a shuffle machine will produce?

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting stuff thanks for the info Snake. What about the 80? Still time? How many more hands per hour do you think a shuffle machine will produce?

[/ QUOTE ]

In yellow and green chip it is about four more hands per hour. It might be more in brown chip since they tend to play faster. Of course, on blind steals they revert to manual shuffle since the machines take about 42 seconds to shuffle.

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

snake,

is it $2 five handed?

also, is there more of a problem with walking?

~ rick

[snakehead]

yes, it's $2 five handed. all day, the loudspeaker announced, "40-80 players please return to your seats. the table is short and out-of-action."

hippy steve is very happy with the change.

[snakehead]

I guess I'll have to wait for speedracer to explain how the commerce can make more money with this system. it seems to me they are dropping less per hour.

[jayadd]

i havent seen any shuffle machines on the east coast are the machines similar to the ones the casino uses out on the floor? If so do they use 2 decks?

[andyfox]

With time collection, it was $162/hour in 30-60 and $180 in 40-80, provided everybody paid full collection, which rarely happened. Let's assume, on average, they got two half collections per game per half hour: that reduced the 30-60 to $144/hour and $160 in 40-80.

I think they average about 35 hands/hour right now. If they took $4/hand every hand, which of course they won't, what with walks and walking, that would be $140/hour. So I agree, I don't see how they will do better until they put in the automatic shuffle machines.

With the rake now the same in both 30-60 and 40-80, I predict the end of the 30-60 game, unless they've reduced the small blind to $10. Have they?

[Josh W]

Andy,

I'm not convinced that the brown chip players are collection-aware enough to realize the savings of playing 40-80. I think that it's a style preference.

People who prefer tighter more passive games prefer the 30. There aren't many of those, and as such, there aren't many 30s at Commerce.

It certainly is an interesting switch, since it appears to be reducing the house take. They take $4/hand....isn't that the same as the 4-8 games?

Funny world.

Josh

[Rick Nebiolo]

Andy.

IMO Speed Racer made some mistakes and exagerations in his analysis of drop versus time in the Commerce yellow chip games. My own analysis, contained within a Speed Racer RGP thread can be found at this Google Advanced Group Search link.

I believe if you applied my techniques to make an estimate for the brown chip games less would be taken in a full 40/80 game and perhaps even less overall. The problem comes short handed, especially four or five handed when players tradtionally got a break on time collections.

Of course there are two ways that a game can become short handed. An example of the first is when there are five players and four empty seats. This is when you used to get half price time collection and a $2 per hand drop makes the game unplayable unless you are against several fish. The second is when the seats are filled but four players are walking.

With a $2 per hand drop five handed, expect to see few sustainable short games, more walking in full games, and more players justifiably unwilling to take blinds when several others are walking bringing the game to a halt.

Regards,

Rick