Is this really bad? 5/10 6max

[IlliniRyRy]

I make this play once in awhile, I'm sure I'll get some harsh criticism but hear me out. I open raise from the cutoff with a marginal hand, say A2s, 89s, A9, J10, etc and the button (not a maniac) 3 bets, SB and BB fold and I fold.
I've lost sooooo much money in this situation by calling, hitting nothing on the flop and folding to their bet. Playing back at them without a pair is just -EV against a TAG and most of the time I'm not hitting anything there. What do you think?

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
I make this play once in awhile, I'm sure I'll get some harsh criticism but hear me out. I open raise from the cutoff with a marginal hand, say A2s, 89s, A9, J10, etc and the button (not a maniac) 3 bets, SB and BB fold and I fold.
I've lost sooooo much money in this situation by calling, hitting nothing on the flop and folding to their bet. Playing back at them without a pair is just -EV against a TAG and most of the time I'm not hitting anything there. What do you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like what you've done with your hair. It matches your skirt very well.

[BottlesOf]

I don't consider those marginal CO hands, but standard open raising hands.

Ok, you get 3-bet by a non-maniac. Well what kind of non-maniac? Some people see a raise and think, ok he has a strong hand, he rasied, but my hand is premium, so I'll 3-bet--otherwise they fold. Against these players, yes the check-fold is most often correct.

However, most players are either donks, or aware enough of "stealing," so as to 3-bet a little lighter. Against these players, I think you can make a play based on the board and your hand. I'd be more inclined to do it (when you hit a piece obviously) when you have an A, or when there's a board you think may have missed the other guy, either raggy, or with one high rank card--if he doesn't have that one high rank card, he'll fear you do and be more inclined to give up.

As usual, you need to know your opponent. Check folding too much is bad, making plays without hands too much is bad, it's all about balance.

[stigmata]

You got odds to call and fold an unfavourable flop. Its easy to spew chips postflop if you make top pair or whatever, so maybe this is where the problem is. Need to tread carefully and be prepared to fold. However, opponent knows you are probably on a steal, so it's not like they have a monster every time.

[cjx]

Isn't the value open raising hands like A2s, 89s, JTo somewhat contingent on the fold equity that you get? Well, sometimes you're going to run into a hand (in better position no less)... I would expect that you should lose money in these situations. Are you making more money off the numerous folds and out draws you hit? Is your image improving to where your premium hands make more money because of this?

I don't think folding preflop is a worthwhile adjustment though as you're getting what, ~6-1 (after rake) on your preflop call where you're often at what like 4-1 underdog. So, just try not to spew postflop and I don't see any problems.

cjx

Edit: You are asking about the merits of a preflop fold vs the oft flop check/fold correct?

[Grisgra]

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Against these players, yes the check-fold is most often correct.

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This guy isn't check-folding the flop -- as I understand it, he's folding PREFLOP.

[billyjex]

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Against these players, yes the check-fold is most often correct.

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This guy isn't check-folding the flop -- as I understand it, he's folding PREFLOP.

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Other than making your vagina dripping wet, a move like this will allow these people to pick on you and 3-bet you a lot more often.

Really, I've never seen this at 5/10 6-max and am shocked anyone does it.

[MAxx]

NOT calling the buttons 3-bet is chip spewery.

[BottlesOf]

[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

I feel like Quagmire after he learned Taylor Hanson was a boy

Oh God, No!

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Um, yeah this is god awful.

[krishanleong]

I'm not saying I fold this preflop. But it's closer than everyone is giving credit for. Basically you don't have the iniative against a hand that is likely to have you dominated. You'll fold the best hand sometimes when the flop misses both of you. You'll lose a lot when you flop a second best ace. And you'll win a little when you flop top pair. It's not a real good spot.

Krishan