Psychology of the not-quite-minimum raise

[Ghazban]

We've all seen minraises over and over again and lots has been discussed about what they mean. From weak players, I generally think it means they like their hand but can't be bothered to decide on an amount they'd like to raise (I mean, come ON-- there's a little button on the screen that says "Raise" right on it! Why would you bother with typing an amount or using the slider when you can just click the button?)

However, I've been seeing a fair number of non-minimum raises that are still quite small. For example, I bet $30 and somebody raises me to $70. Clearly, they could've just hit the raise button and made it $60 but they actually took the effort to use the slider or type in an amount that gives me fantastic odds to draw (he had a set to my overpair but the flop was 2-suited so, had I had a flush draw, I'd be getting great odds).

Another example. Party 1/2. UTG raises to $5, button reraises to $15, UTG re-reraises to $30 (the minimum raise would be to $25). Button calls, flop is rags and UTG takes it down with a bet (I think this one was almost certainly AA/KK).

My theory (and it is just a theory at this point) is that it is a very strong hand (set, flopped straight/nut flush) who doesn't want to scare anybody away but wants to get money into the pot. The not-quite-minimum raiser is thinking about the game enough to select a bet size but has deliberately selected one that should keep people around. Thoughts?

[kingofswing]

I agree totally. The not-quite-min-raise is meant to keep people in the pot but somehow disguise a monster that is easily given away by a minraise. When someone minraises and it's not preflop, we generally read it as a big hand trying to build the pot. So what do you do when you have a monster, want to build the pot, but don't want to scare people away? Well, you not-quite-min-raise. I think in most cases this is exactly what it means. The only exception is some player simply don't reraise bets to 3x the original bet, so this might be standard for them, but usually it's your read.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I think it's weak. I think it's like "OK, I want to raise to see where I'm at...hmm...what should I raise to...? Not that much, that would be expensive....how about....um...70? yeah, that looks good, cheap way to find out where I am. Much better than last time when I min-raised and lost to his ace high. After all, no one folds to min-raises."

[GoCubsGo]

I sometimes do this when I know I have the best hand. At times, 3x the original bet is too much for the current pot and I know I won't get any calls, so maybe I raise $.50 to $1.20 or $1.30. I don't ever see opponents do the "slightly more than minraise."

[IamLeach]

In my experiences, the min-raise can mean. Junk, Draw or Monstor. this is ussually easy to figure out. However the slightly more than min raise ussually always means a strong hand, and is somtimes a draw. Of course everything depends but I ussually figure the raise your talking about for a bigger hand.

[jkkkk]

I think it can mean either someone has marginal hand (i.e. TPGK on the flop) or an absolute monster on a relatively drawless board. With TPGK, its easy to get away from if someone 3-bets them, with a monster, your just building the pot. Any sensible player who has a monster on a drawing board doesn't make a silly near min-raise and anybody with a marginal hand doesn't want to attach themselves to the size of the pot.

[kurto]

I think you're right about NOT wanting to lose the people already in the pot. But, they want to raise to keep other people from joining.

(Which, by the way, is the only reason I would ever minraise [actually, min-re-raise - I would never open minraise])

Ie - someone open raises to 3xbb. I want to play against him, not go all in, and not have a large field... so I might reraise to 6-10bb. I do this with the expectation that the original raiser will call but others will discouraged to come along for the ride.

[intheflatfield]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's weak. I think it's like "OK, I want to raise to see where I'm at...hmm...what should I raise to...? Not that much, that would be expensive....how about....um...70? yeah, that looks good, cheap way to find out where I am. Much better than last time when I min-raised and lost to his ace high. After all, no one folds to min-raises."


[/ QUOTE ]

That's the kind of reaction I want to foster, when I pull this move. I think it's relatively easy to discriminate which type of player makes this play and their relative skill level. For instance, if their betting pattern shows weak-tight, timid post-flop or simply irregular innefective bet or raise amounts. When a non-fish makes this raise. I usually respect it.

Although, I do respect your opinion and enjoy reading your post.

[theben]

[ QUOTE ]
The not-quite-minimum raiser is thinking about the game enough to select a bet size but has deliberately selected one that should keep people around. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with that. could also be a cheap (but non min) awkward probing raise

[intheflatfield]

[ QUOTE ]
Ie - someone open raises to 3xbb. I want to play against him, not go all in, and not have a large field... so I might reraise to 6-10bb. I do this with the expectation that the original raiser will call but others will discouraged to come along for the ride.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting concept. I like to make the above play with big pp's or tptk on a safe board.