Questioning my play here... comments please

[Sidekick]

This is my second hand at the table. No real reads on anyone. The table is running just over 30% seeing the flop.

I think this is just standard play, but right now I'm questioning everything about my game. I'm looking for leaks, so comments are appreciated.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls, CO folds.

River: (11 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

[prayformojo]

Bet the river. Other than that, looks perfect. Are you questioning anything in particular other than the river?

[Entity]

Bet the river. Otherwise looks good.

Rob

[Sidekick]

Nothing in particular. I'm just questioning every aspect of my play right now.

I see so many players make comments about how good a player they are while I'm playing, and I'm thinking they have no clue (based on what I have read in SSH, TOP, etc.). But I know that I don't have a great deal of experience, so maybe they are right and I'm wrong.

So I am posting lots of hands to check myself in a variety of different areas.

[imported_turvalon]

Can someone explain each of the streets here for me? This is the kind of hand that I see get posted sometimes and I don't understand why you would bet out on.

I have been trying to rethink my poor game and hands like this .

[cab4656]

I don't understand the flop bet here. Okay, you raised preflop for value, but you got a pretty bad flop for this hand. All you have is one overcard and a couple backdoor draws. You have five other people in with you, so it's very doubtful you'll be able to fold them out. Personally, I check and fold this flop.

Someone please tell me if I'm wrong.

[prayformojo]

You're wrong.

There are so many reasons to bet this flop that I just know I will miss some, but here goes:

1) You raised before the flop and hit a ragged flop that missed you, but is very unlikely to give anyone better than a pair to which you have at least one, and possibly two overcards.

2) Checking after raising preflop tells your opponents that the flop missed you (in the short term) and that you are weak (in the long term). If you checked this flop to me, I would bet out with almost any piece of the board to get you out of the hand.

3) You may have best hand.

4) If you are behind, you probably have at a minimum 6 outs to the winning hand: 3 aces and 1.5 each for your backdoor flush and straight draws. You also have no reason right now to believe that a pair of tens would not be good, but even counting only the 6 outs, you are a 2.9:1 underdog (I think; someone please correct this if I'm wrong) to make aces, the flush, or the straight by the river. If only 3 people call you, your bet is for value IF you are behind at this point. I would give at least one out for a 10, but with 6 outs you're still betting for value.

5) You may force out a better made hand, such as a lone 7 or 3. Forcing out A7 or A3 is possible with weak players, and would increase your chances of winning the pot immeasurably.

6) You may force out a better draw, such as a weak player's gutshot straight draw, or force out another suit's backdoor flush draw.

7) You may fold out the entire field. Unlikely? Yes. Does it sometimes happen nonetheless? Absolutely.

8) You get information on your opponents' hands. 5 calls would increase the chance that you are behind to at least one pair of queens, but if no one raises, at least your 6 outs should be good. The more people that fold, the more likely it is you are ahead, or behind to a low pair. If you are raised, you are more likely up against a Q, two pair, or a set. Compare this to the information you get when you check after raising, which can be boiled down to the following: someone bet the flop with something.

Now, I can think of two reasons why you would check/fold the flop:

1) You're a weak/tight player who would rather save one, or at most two small bets than increase your chance at winning a fairly big pot.

2) You don't like money.

[imported_turvalon]

I understand points 1-3, but 4 is really about the turn and not the flop. What would you have done if the turn missed and why?

If the turn was a club?
Not a club?

thanks

[prayformojo]

#4 is not about the turn. It's about the flop. I would love for someone else to step in and explain this better, and if we're both lucky someone will do so. I am still quite early in my journey of understanding when it comes to betting a flop for value.

Simply put, if you are behind but have outs to a better hand, whether you bet for value depends on your odds against having the winner by the river compared to the number of calls you will get. If you are a 3:1 underdog to have the winning hand by the river, and four people will call you, your bet pays 4:1. For every four hands you play, you will lose one SB three times, and gain four SB once, for an average value of 1/4 SB per hand, even though you lose most of the time. There are often complicating factors, such as whether you may have to pay a further BB on the turn, but I'm keeping it simple because I suck at poker.

As for when a club comes on the turn, of course the answer is going to be "it depends." Specifically, it depends on how many outs you then count yourself as having, and how many people are left in the hand. If the club is the Queen, you may have to discount your outs significantly. If it's the jack, you can increase your outs for the gutshot straight draw. Calculate your outs, look at the number of people in the hand, and determine how many are likely to call if bet into to find out if you can bet the turn for value. If you can't bet the turn for value, and IF there is no other reason to bet, basic pot odds tell you whether to call a bet.

If the club doesn't come on the turn, well then you now know that this is one of the vast majority of times you are not going to make your runner runner nut flush. So you figure out your outs to make a non-flush winner on the river (if you are behind), and undergo the same process as when the club fell.

Edit: I just want to clarify that with any club falling on the turn, even the Queen, you would probably have many reasons to bet even if the bet isn't for value.

[wabe]

If I had this hand, I would have bet the flop because of rules #5-8 on prayformojo's list. Until someone shows me that my hand is second-best, I want to chase out hands that either a) are better, but only by a little (77) or b) have the potential to get better (KJ).