Protected Nut Flush on Paired Board or Lost Money?

TomBrooks · #1 04-21-2005, 01:05 AM

Reads not that important here. Lose call preflop against a pretty tight aggresive raiser, I know, but I was running hot on this table. I had a strong table image (I had made a Royal Flush, quads and several straights and flushes earlier), and had won some pots by bullying. Raiser had been missing most of what he was raising anyway and had a tendency to bail quickly against agression.

UTG2 was very loose for this table (37ish) and raised preflop infrequently (4%ish). I was a little dismayed when he 3bet preflop but at least there were a lot of callers so if I connected the upside was big. Postflop he would call down to the river with almost any high card or small pair.

On the flop I was thinking he had a ten and made a set. Now I realize he might have had a Broadway pocket pair but I was thinking set at the time. My nut flush comes good on the turn but with a pair on the board I want to try to knock out as many full house draws as I can so I raise the turn to do so, screaming flush. I know I'm going to lose bets I could make but I figure it's worth it. Some of the other players had seemed a little weak/uncertain and most had been folding pretty easily to aggression on much less scary boards.

Right after the hand I realized if anyone had two pairs I probably couldn't have folded them anyway (Or could I? I have a feeling some of them might have folded two pair to my obvious flush, perhaps incorrectly.) Was I correct to raise or not?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 3 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (19.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (11.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, CO folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (15.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 17.75 BB

Chris Daddy Cool · #2 04-21-2005, 01:08 AM

a lot of the reasoning you use in this hand is very very flawed.

Dead · #3 04-21-2005, 01:12 AM

Why did you not fold preflop?

[ QUOTE ]
running hot on this table

[/ QUOTE ]

No

NateDog · #4 04-21-2005, 01:13 AM

I'd muck it PF. You have position against the original raiser, but the CC opens you up to a 3 bet behind you, like what happened. You are now playing a dominated A (most likely) or up against a big PP, meaning your hand only has flush and wheel value.

The rest of the hand is played very oddly by UTG1. It looks like a big PP, and the non-raise on the river looks like you took it down.

Chris Daddy Cool · #5 04-21-2005, 01:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you not fold preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

read carefully before you make snide questions like that.

"Loose call preflop against a pretty tight aggresive raiser, I know, but I was running hot on this table. I had a strong table image (I had made a Royal Flush, quads and several straights and flushes earlier), and had won some pots by bullying. Raiser had been missing most of what he was raising anyway "

TomBrooks · #6 04-21-2005, 01:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
a lot of the reasoning you use in this hand is very very flawed.

[/ QUOTE ]
I see your referring to my rational that because I was running hot I could make loose calls. I know it's flawed logic, but when I'm running hot, I do not let that kind of logic unduly interfere. Later in this session I called a raise in the SB with 47o, flopped an OESD and made it. 98% of the time, I fold that hand. This session I called it.

Chris Daddy Cool · #7 04-21-2005, 01:16 AM

yes, that and your hand reading and reasoning for some of your postflop action (note however, i'm not saying that you played it wrong postflop, but that the reasons you did what you did are slightly misguided)

Firefly · #8 04-21-2005, 01:18 AM

Fold Pf,
Flop...good you can't raise because your blowing out the rest of the field at this point. Turn and river look good.
But yeah...fold pf. That was an extremely lucky flop and you got payed off, however it's likely not going to be as happy as a story next time. Chalk it up to bad play, be happy you got a profit from it and learn not to click that evil call button :P

ArturiusX · #9 04-21-2005, 01:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
a lot of the reasoning you use in this hand is very very flawed.

[/ QUOTE ]
I see your referring to my rational that because I was running hot I could make loose calls. I know it's flawed logic, but when I'm running hot, I do not let that kind of logic unduly interfere. Later in this session I called a raise in the SB with 47o, flopped an OESD and made it. 98 % of the time, I fold that hand. This session I called it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Play poker for fun then, we're here to critically think about probabilty and how to work out opponents.

Don't come with this attitude and think its going to go over well here.

TomBrooks · #10 04-21-2005, 01:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Play poker for fun then, we're here to critically think about probabilty and how to work out opponents. Don't come with this attitude and think its going to go over well here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Art, I play for fun and profit. I acknowledged up front the preflop call was loose and gave my reasons. I really am OK with my decision to call on this table at this time.

If you want to discuss the preflop raise, I will tell you I believe in hot streaks. This is not an attitude, it is a belief. You can tell me about probability and odds etc. which is fine and which I usually employ in my play. I am an engineer with 2 years of college math and understand that stuff pretty well. Sometimes I think I can ignore it however. It is not logical, but I have found it is better not to use logic to argue with luck when luck is running either very hot or very cold. I have actually come to believe more in streaks more the more I play.

Anyway, the only question in my mind is about the turn raise. So far everyone's been commenting on the preflop call.