LDN's Bad Session- Hand #1 PP 2/5 NL - AQs

[LuvDemNutz]

This is the first of a series of hands that I played last night that amounted to me losing a boatload on Party NL.

Since I have decided to take a break from Poker, I want to analyze where I made mistakes.

Your comments/criticisms are much appreciated.

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (9 handed) converter

MP2 ($333.4)
MP3 ($353.9)
CO ($244)
Button ($200)
SB ($204)
Hero ($388)
UTG ($307.3)
UTG+1 ($1144.3)
MP1 ($267.4)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls $4, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $4, MP3 folds, CO calls $4, Button folds, SB (poster) folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $12</font>, UTG calls $12, MP2 calls $12, CO calls $12.

Flop: ($66) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $20</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $60</font>, UTG folds, MP2 folds, CO calls $40.

Turn: ($186) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Questions -

1) Is the PF raise standard?
2) Was this a good or bad spot to check-raise - why or why not?
3) What is your action on the turn?

[tbach24]

If you are going to raise that pre-flop, you must make a legitimate raise, otherwise you should check. You're early on all rounds, and if you get a nice hand on the flop, you will have much better deception.

[Kaz The Original]

I like the raise preflop, while many won't.

I think this was a horrible spot to check. There are two hearts. Avoid checking when there is a possible flush draw coming up.

On the turn, you have a huge hand, almost certainly the best hand and the best draw. If CO has AK you're probably going to lose a fair bit here, because you have to protect against hearts. I make it $150.

[craze9]

I would have raised a bit more preflop, and then potted the flop. I dont see why you would checkraise here. Checkraising tends to get people to fold hands or reraise. Also your opponent's weak bet and your checkriase give you little info about his hand.

I disagree with Kaz in thinking that the turn is a good card for you. It isnt that bad but AK is now beating you. True you have a draw to the nuts but that only matters if you are already beat. Still, you should make a strong bet.

[exeph]

Note that CO only has about $170 left on the turn. Since we're not in danger of facing a big bet on the river if a heart hits, on the turn I'd probably push 75% and bet $80 the other 25%.

I don't think the flop check raise was particularly bad. The pre-flop raise, followed by a flop check will frequently be read for a pocket pair worried about the ace on the flop. Any ace may then bet to protect himself against hearts and straight draws, and often people will run a bluff against you, too. I think the check raise will help you drive out the draws better than a leading bet would. Depending on the table, making this play 30-50% of the time seems reasonable.

[LuvDemNutz]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to raise that pre-flop, you must make a legitimate raise, otherwise you should check. You're early on all rounds, and if you get a nice hand on the flop, you will have much better deception.

[/ QUOTE ]

So 4XBB isn't a legitimate raise? Or is it too small because there are already three limpers?

Instead of $16, should I have made it about $30 to go?

This is a hand I seem to have problems with at NL - AQo and AQs. When to raise and when not to raise. I am used to playing limit where I almost always raise with it.

Can you explain the merits of not raising versus the merits of a large raise with this hand in this particular instance?

Thanks.

[Huskiez]

[ QUOTE ]
So 4XBB isn't a legitimate raise? Or is it too small because there are already three limpers?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's too small because there are so many limpers. Usually people prefer 3-4x and then add another bb per limper. So here, make it around $25 to go.

[ QUOTE ]
Instead of $16, should I have made it about $30 to go?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I think that'll be better. Also gives you a chance to take the pot down right there. For $16 to go, no one is going to fold.

[ QUOTE ]
Can you explain the merits of not raising versus the merits of a large raise with this hand in this particular instance?

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising
<ul type="square">Builds a pot in which you very likely have the greatest equity
Charges people with poor hands to draw out on you
Gets people committed to the pot with their inferior holdings (especially weaker aces)
Sometimes you can take it down on the flop with a pot sized bet, with people fearing an overpair[/list]
Not Raising
<ul type="square">You would be building a pot without position by raising, something you usually don't want to do in NL
If you flop overcards and face someone playing back at you, you may have to fold the better hand[/list]
Hope that helps. I'm sure there are more reasons, but those are some of them.

[tbach24]

If you are going to raise, you should make it 4xBB + 1xBB per limper IMO. Therefore it should be 7xBB with 3 limpers. I feel though that it is advantageous to check here so that when you do hit this type of flop, it will be difficult for your opponents to tell whether you have a heart draw, or a legitimate hand.

[tbach24]

I like this explanation a lot better than mine. Especially the part about building the pot out of position without a monsterous hand.

[LuvDemNutz]

[ QUOTE ]
I like this explanation a lot better than mine. Especially the part about building the pot out of position without a monsterous hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK - so then what hands are worthy of a raise out of position?

only AA-QQ?

how about AKo, AKs, and JJ?

I'm learning that NL is much more of a position game than limit.

How about calling a raise here?

Let's say there are 1-2 limpers than a standard LP raise of 4-5XBB?

Do you call out of position with AQs? Why or why not?

Thanks!