10/20 Villian's Strange Line for popjay

[KaneKungFu123]

Villian is Jackal86. 33/17, tricky, loose but not too loose, smart but not too smart, player.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

BB ($4233.99)
UTG ($2007.50)
Hero ($5932)
UTG+2 ($1702.50)
MP1 ($877.01)
MP2 ($2000)
MP3 ($436)
CO ($1394)
Button ($1967)
SB ($2027)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $10.
UTG calls $20, Hero calls $20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls $20, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($120) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $50</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls $50, MP1 folds, CO folds.

Turn: ($220) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $250</font>,

Okay. Why is he overbetting this pot on this turn card after only betting less then 1/2 pot on flop. Was he hoping his flop bet would be raised? If so, why not just check-raise? That really isnt his style.

Okay. So either that turn helped him, perhaps 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], or it give him a stronger draw and he is now trying to push me off a likley queen.

I can raise, which will push him off a draw, but will hammer me when he is better then me: he will not fold Queens up here.

Hero calls $250.

River: ($720) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $900</font>,

Huh? Why is he overbetting the pot again? Its highly unlikely he has a boat. Hed have bet two pair or a set harder on the flop. If he has a boat, why not check-raise? Or is he too dumb to realize he should check-raise?

Did he fill his flush? He is tricky enough to realize the obscurity of his line, and over bet it here, hoping to get called by KQ/AQ. Hes played with me, and knows I dont have a boat.

Or is he firing another bluff with Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ?

Hero folds.
Final Pot: $1620

[Yeti]

I'm glad you didn't call this river. There's been a few occasions lately where at the time I thought Villain's line 'didn't make sense', only to call a big river bet and see I was crushed.

What's to say he doesnt have 85/55/88 here? He weak leads hoping to get raised by top pair or flush draw. That doesn't happen so he fires out strong on the turn, fearing you have a flush or straight draw.

You call again, the river is a perfect card for either of those hands he could have. He suspects you have now made the flush and tries to get a big call out of you.

[VanVeen]

"If he has a boat, why not check-raise? Or is he too dumb to realize he should check-raise?"

Or maybe villain is smart and realizes that overbetting the pot is far more profitable vs. your likely range of hands than check-raising because:

a) you check behind with all your TP-hands 100% of the time but talk yourself into calling his overbet some small but significant % of the time;

b) you'll bet less than you'll call with a flush and will never (or at least 'not often enough') call a check-raise w/one, either because you're weak or because his river check-raise bluff frequency is low enough that calling cannot possibly be correct for you;

IOW, def. fold. Don't talk yourself into calling these bets with "that's weird!". I've wasted a lot of money doing that. Also, mix it up sometimes and just call two streets with a set or two pair or something (you'll know when to do this based on flow of the game, etc.). I hate letting even 'smart but not too smart' villains know there's 0% chance I'm holding such and such (obv. assuming I play with them often). Bad news.

[Yeti]

Yeah, I skipped over that part of your post, but Vanveen nailed it. He makes more betting than check-raising here, as it's unlikely you will ever call his CR.

[KaneKungFu123]

you guys make a strong point, however, If I am villian, i am check raising (and getting called) by the majority of players in this game. i cant really say whether or not he thinks im good enough to fold to a check raise or not.

[captZEEbo1]

I don't like your turn call....

imo you are ONLY calling on a flush draw, but you convince yourself that the QT alone is good. Had you not picked up the flush draw on the turn, you'd probably fold. So there was no point to calling the turn bet, because when you missed, are you hoping for a free showdown? What are the odds that happen? Well let's see what happens on the river, what a surprise he fired at the river again?!?!? Now what? I guess since my flush draw missed, I fold!