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Guthrie · #19 12-08-2005, 02:35 PM

I'll readily admit I have postflop problems, but I'm completely at a loss on how to find or fix them. The biggest problem I've identified is that I win the small pots and lose the big ones, over and over. Unfortunately, I can't find any way in PokerTracker to confirm this, and I don't know what to do about it even if I could.

So I've resorted to trying to cut losses, but this is counter to what Ed says, and I believe, that I shouldn't be folding a 15 or 20 BB pot for one bet when there's a decent chance I'll win it. I could have easily saved enough bets on the river to make up for my losses, but if I folded every time a third flush or straight card, or an ace hits on the river, how much would I have also given up in winnings? I don't find that check box in PT.

I post hands, people agree with the way I played it, or, more often, encourage me to put even more money into a pot against opponents who will never fold.

It could be tilt, but I doubt it. I tilt, but only for a few seconds, and I really don't think it's affecting my play. My table demeanor runs more Phil Ivey than Phil Hellmuth. Frustration, however, is another matter.

I won consistently at .25/.50 and .50/1 over 40K hands, and I've won when taking shots at 2/4, enough to consider abandoning 1/2 and moving up. I hesitate to do this, however, since "If you can't beat 1/2 you can't beat 2/4." I'm also winning enough at the 22s to cover my 1/2 losses. Maybe I'm just not a limit player.

I've read all the books, SSHE cover to cover about five times, and I refer to it daily. I transcribed the starting hands chart to a useable format and used it constantly until I was able to break away from it based on table texture, but I still have it handy. I transcribed all the hands from the "Evaluating the Flop" section into a three-ring binder so I can refer to them on the fly when needed.

Here are some hands from the last session posted. They are fairly typical of the hands I get involved with and can't seem to win.

Is it still MUBS when they always have it?

Hand 1. SB is 67/13, Button is 45/12.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Flop: Great for me, but I would have continuation bet anyway.

Turn: Did the SB hit his flush or trips? I raise to find out.

River: Maybe it was the button who is slowplaying, or did he just hit his weak ace? If I posted this in Micro Limits I'm sure the advice would be to "reraise the donk!" but maybe the constant hammering has turned me into Lee Jones, so I just call to see his flush as cheaply as possible.

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 4 folds, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (11 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

Hand 2. Villain is 42/0.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Maybe I should have raised preflop to get my PFR up, but it seems to me I want to see the flop cheaply with A2s. If I flop an ace I'm not going to win a kicker war, so I call.

Flop: My first instinct is to open-fold since I know I'm beat by any ace, but that's not the 2+2 way. So I evaluate the hand. I have a backdoor nut flush draw, a backdoor nut straight draw. I already have top pair, but no kicker. If the board pairs, however, then nobody's kicker matters. So I bet to see what shakes out. UTG raises. When donks flop a flush, straight, or trips, they always wait for the turn to raise. Always. But that's MUBS, right? Maybe he was just has an ace, I paired my kicker and he didn't, so I 3-bet.

Turn: All my backdoor draws are gone, but I now have two pair. I'll beat any two pair unless someone has aces and something other than deuces. So I bet again.

River: Has to be a blank. Surely nobody was drawing to a gutshot wheel on this board. UTG bets. Do I call to see the showdown as cheaply as possible, or do I take the 2+2 way and raise? I raise. He calls. Maybe I was right about his ace. He'd 3-bet the straight, right?

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (5 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB folds, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, Button folds, UTG caps, Hero calls.

River: (14 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB

Hand 3. Villain is 30/15.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Flop: I'm behind to AK, AQ, QQ, KK, JJ, and he could have 3-bet any of those PF. If he has one of those, then maybe I should just check/call all the way down. But maybe he has TT, AJ, or with a PFR of 15, lots of other hands. I have TPGK, so I bet.

Turn: He really likes his hand so now we're in check/call to the showdown, right?

River: Now this is an interesting card, so I'll check/raise this donk. Oops. What did the LAG have that he would have checked here? It didn't even put me on tilt. It just amazed me, and sent me back to the books trying to find out what I'm doing wrong.

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 3-bets, 6 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Hand 4. Villain is 30/15.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Same donk.

Flop: TPGK, that's it, but I raised PF, so I'm definitely betting out here. They all come along. Great. More money for me.

Turn: MUBS again, but I resist the urge to open-fold, and lead out. Nobody raises. Maybe just this one time nobody has an ace.

River: Okay, I'm beat by a lousy, lowly deuce, but I'm trying very hard to stop giving up every time the river completes a flush or straight, so I bet.

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, MP2 calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

Hand 5. Villain is 36/0.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Flop: The dreaded ace on the flop, with four loose opponents. One of them has it. I know it. You know it. We all know it. But I'm rather obligated to bet out here. The one who has it should raise, and some of the rest of them should fold, right? After all I raised PF, so maybe I have an ace too.

Turn: Nobody folded. They never do. Only three of them can have an ace, and I've actually seen that happen in this situation. More than once. In any event, I'm done sweetening their pot, and decide to just call it down as long as nobody's raising.

River: There's that flush and straight again. At least I'll get the satisfaction of seeing the ragged ace get beat by somebody's miracle card on the river.

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, CO bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, CO bets, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

Hand 6. Villain is 30/5.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Flop: Only two opponents this time, wow. Maybe nobody has an ace and nobody flopped the flush. Maybe BB is bluffing, on a flush draw, or maybe he has the ace. They always have the ace, right? So I raise.

Turn: He goes into ace-calldown-mode. He had the ace, I raised, so now he's just going to hunker down and see if his ace is bigger than mine. And I have him isolated, that's what raising is all about.

River: I'm beat. I know it, so why waste another bet?

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 6 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 5.75 BB

Hand 7. Villain is 24/8.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

I definitely have him isolated, but there's an ace on the flop. Can anyone really make a case here against open-folding?

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 5 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

Hand 8. Villain is 16.5/4.85.

But sometimes I win.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
4 folds, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets, CO folds.

Final Pot: 3.25 BB