[tdarko]

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As for the #9 hole, it's a good thing there are a lot of crappy hitters that are fast. that way you can put them in the 9 hole... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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haha, very true.

yeah manny definately picks up the slack and of course with a team like the yankees or the red sox you can get creative with the lineup and nothing is really traditional anymore, this is partly why i said lineups are never concrete.

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why let the pitcher settle down and get a relatively easy out at #2?

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i completely agree with this, always put pressure on the pitcher...this is a good point. i will say this from a majority of pitchers standpoints though, that they would rather have 1 home run hit off of them than many doubles. i say this b/c (brief stop in the conversation to say that i am just throwing this out here, i wouldn't actually do this with the red sox lineup, its too good) sometimes a pitcher will give up a bloop and a blast and then the slate is wiped clean and then they cruise...but when they give up a ball down the line, and then two in the gap, and then thats when a guy like ortiz or manny make their paycheck. the 2 hole guy is the guy that puts that ball in the gap and keeps the bases filled--constantly putting pressure on the pitcher like you said. obviously pitching to ortiz is putting pressure on the pitcher, i am not saying it isn't [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

a guy i know said the toughest team he had to throw to was the oakland athletics during his day. this was that late 80's A's team, the bash brothers team with jose, mac, rickey, dave parker, dave henderson and carney lansford. he said the reason they were so tough to pitch against was the reason you mentioned...you never got a break and carney lansford in the 2 spot was a big reason. rickey was a pest with power, then carney would come up and he could do so many different things with the bat and never struckout (made you throw a ton of pitches, as did rickey) so all of this happened before you even got to jose, mac, henderson or parker. i think you can apply pressure without ortiz is my point.