[Mike Haven]

so let's say it's a 10-20 game and three of us are in for the flop = 30 pot

one bets 10, the other raises to 20 - if i get it right you say we should raise to 30 for value as we are getting 3 to 1 on 20, much better than 1.8 to 1, = 120 pot

but then isn't it the case that when we miss 81 times out of 100 and face a bet of 20 or 40 we are in effect now getting only 110 to our 50, or 150 to our 70, for a 4.1 to 1 shot?

or are you hoping the 19 times out of 100 that we turn a flush, with three flush cards showing on the board, and we don't get beaten by bigger flushes or by boats, we will win enough to make up for those 81 misses and loss of effective odds to catch on the river?