[Borodog]

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At present the evidence is that at a quatum level there IS randomness, so to base an argument on "I can't think how .." seems to leap ahead of the evidence. Now, with the M-string brane theories perhaps some hidden variables will show up ( there's been some strong cases made that they can't show up )

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I talked to a physics major who's studying quantum right now, and the way he discussed it, it said it is more likely that the randomness is merely apparent due to the lack of precision in our measurement tools, and hidden variables. Even in the scientific world, the jury is still out.

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I have a Ph.D. in physics, and I can tell you unequivocably that this is incorrect. Randomness at the quantum level is not due to lack of precision in our measurement devices.

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I'm not saying that there isn't true randomness at the quantum level. I'm not saying there is. I'm saying that I don't know, and that you probably don't either. Quantum physics gets tossed around like a hacky-sack whenever there's a deterministic argument by people who really don't know dick about it.

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It's been a while, but I know a little bit more than dick about it.

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On both occasions when I held a discussion group IRL on free will vs determinism, it ALWAYS boiled down to the libertarians saying "science says I'm right" and the determinists saying "no it doesn't."

It will be a VERY long time, if ever, that science conclusively proves the existence of randomness that is not attributable to lack of precision in measuring tools. I think we need to accept that this is something that is a little beyond our comprehension.

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Think about it this. You have a sample of some radioactive material. Each atom in the material has some probability of decaying in the next x minutes. But there is no possible way to predict when an individual atom will decay. You can measure each atomic decay essentially perfectly. There is no imprecision. Either an atom pops off, or it does not. Uncertainty in your measuring device has no bearing on the process at all.