[Orpheus]

Hey, I'm not suggesting laying down to a draw.I'm not sure I could deal with the large (bad fold)/(solid beat) ratio suggested by the hard numbers in some cases. Sometimes you gotta take the beats to save your sanity!

I'm talking about the times when your best read, intuition or logic tells you that you are drawing dead. They aren't common, but the OP suggested that they are NEVER properly played. The tables are fishy but not *that* fishy.

My point is that "never" is a strong word, and "never saw" equals "zero data" --a poor basis for judgement. If we don't see the actual cards, we only "see" (and may overvalue) our conclusions. Maybe he sees "truth". I can't.

Maybe I'm biased. Six months ago, I was a sucker for any SF. I simply couldn't give them credit. It wasn't a huge hole, but it was a leeak. Since then, I've done much better -maybe short term luck?- at spotting real SFs while still rivering the overwhelmng majority of my winning flushes on possible SF boards (I still don't do quite well as against possible FHs -- hints are most welcome!)

I said it in the spirit of discussion, not contention. I respect the OP enough to believe he'd lay down an A-fl if the cues were there, and that therefore he wasn't really suggesting that we arrogantly assume our opponents could never do the same.

Then again, maybe my style used to feed more/bigger pots to the SF threats than most people do. Maybe good players saw I'd call most all-in SFs. I may not declare my hand, but if I stay in, it can blab the whole story itself.