[Buccaneer]

Thank you for the reply Pzhon. Your reply makes sense however there are a few issues that I just can not seem to understand. I hope you can help me clear them up.

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Do you understand that you want players to call to the river in multiway pots with unimproved low pairs?

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Yes this is my understanding as well. I love it when someone stays in with 22 and I have a higher pair of a draw. I want to see a couple of people in the pot with 22, 33, 44 etc. What I am having problems with is that if we have 3 opponents with each having 22, 33, 44 and I have KK then they have more outs to improve than I do. Any 2, 3, or 4 trips up and beats us if we do not improve.
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My idea of success is winning money. It's not winning pots.

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Standard, I think that this is one of the first things that Miller teaches us.
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It's not geting my opponents to fear me enough that they stop trying to give me their money.

[/ QUOTE ] Once again I must agree with you. If we are to win others must call and even raise. If they fold they do not loose and we do not win the most we can. I am not looking for fear from my opponents, I do want them to question why I raise a pot. If they are unthinking calling stations then actions that I take will not affect them. A simi bluff will be only another chance for them to call not fold. Sure I take a lot of hands to the turn and I am happy that I have callers still with me. Sometimes I hate the river, I want them to fold, and folding may be the only way I am going to win a hand that I was way ahead in.
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Until we agree on this, I don't think we can have a meaningful discussion of position, but position still makes a huge difference in soft games.

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Again we do not disagree. Position is important and valuable. The problem is not that I do not believe the position thingie, the problem is that I do not seem to be able to apply it properly in order to maximize my win.

I know this is sort of long but I have tried to make it brief.