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Old 01-14-2003, 03:24 PM
StoneAge StoneAge is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Iowa, Utah, Vermont etc.
Posts: 124
Default Pokerroom.com starting hand EV stats

www.pokerroom.com has an interesting page you might want to check out. I tried puting a link to the page in but it didn't work, so here is how to get there. Go to pokerroom.com, hit the 'statistics' link, then hit the 'total stats by EV' link in the middle of the page.

I would be interested in your interpretations of these stats. According to the page the last time I was there these stats compiled using 46,831,525 pairs of pocket cards at real money games. About half of the action at this site is 35%-60% btf 1-2 games. The EV figures given are average over all games 1-2 to 25-50, 2 to 10 handed, regardless of postition. You can get more specific info, such as what is the EV of KTs on the button in a 5 handed game, if you click on the statistics link.

I have been thinking about a few things since first checking this out:

Is a list in order of highest EV to lowest a better hand ranking system to make adjustments from other hand ranking system (Slansky for example)?

According to S&M, in loose games high unsuited cards go down in value. The majority of the data has been taken from loose 1-2 and 2-4 games. AK is 8th in EV, 10th hand in Slansky hand groups(SHG); AQ is 14th in EV, 16th in SHG; AJ is 19th in EV, 23rd in SHG; KJ is 27th in EV, 29th in SHG. KQ however is 21st in EV and 18th in SHG. The EV stats also seem to indicate that JTs, T9s, and 98s are very overrated in the SHG, even though the data was taken mostly in loose games where these hands should gain value. Axs does show higher EV than SHG, which would be consistent with S&M advice

This EV data represents the average EV of the average player on pokerroom.com. How much -EV rating could a good or expert player be able overcome by playing better than average? In other words using position, maniacs, isolation, number of limpers, post flop play etc. better than the average player. For example QT and JT both have an EV of -0.03BB. How about 56s (-0.07BB). As a comparison 23 is -0.14 and 72s is -0.15. I realise that the answer is the better you are the more you can overcome, but what is realistic?

Or do these stats have almost no meaning? There is some wierdness to these stats when you start looking at specific hands. A8s has an EV of .61BB utg and -.43BB on the button in a ten handed 10-20 game.
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