[vulturesrow]

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Awesome post, by the way. I love it when people provide a number of details with which to proceed in the discussion.

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Thank you.

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I agree, but for clarification, I'd say "human personhood" is intrinsically valuable, and should be protected (at least almost all of the time).

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Agreed, I stated the premise a bit too loosely.

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From a biological standpoint, life does not have a beginning -- it's a continuum. Every living cell was formed from another living cell. Living cells produce more living cells, and later they die. The study of when life began, then, is a question regarding abiogenesis.

(Note: It is very probable that there are Biology textbooks that make the claim that "life begins at conception". This is a reflection of the religious/idealistic beliefs of the author(s) and not scientific.)

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Im referring specifically to the case of when human life begins and embryology texts clearly state that human life begins at conception. The operative definition of human life
here is a genetically complete, self directed, and distinct organism within the mother.

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If I cut off my finger, am I still a person? More or less the same person? Does my finger make me, me? What about my leg? Or my internal organs? What physical part of my body makes me, me? What is it that defines my personhood? Am I less of a person if I become a quadriplegic? I don't think so. So, at least these physical parts of my body are not "me" -- they are not what defines my personhood. But, I posit there is ONE physical part that DOES define my personhood: my brain. If I lose my brain, I'm no longer "me". So, this isn't dualistic, per se. I'm not saying there is a "me" that exists outside of my physical being. But, I am saying that a certain part of my physical being is what defines me. (Actually, it's the activity in the brain that creates my personhood... if my brain is not functioning, I'm no longer "me" either.)


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You are basically defining personhood through functionality. So if someone hits me in the head with a bat and causes me severe brain damage, am I no longer a person? Most rational people would scoff at that notion. I might be an impaired person, but I am person nonetheless. (BTW, full sentinence isnt achieved until well after birth. There are some obvious rather distasteful implications for your argument based on that fact alone).

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One question: what about cloning?


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I am going to defer on this question because in truth it is a whole other can of worms, although I recognize your reason for bringing it up. If you feel it I need to address it I will, but I am tkaing too long on this post as it is. Hopefully I have provided enough response to keep the conversation going.