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Old 02-17-2005, 09:21 PM
pzhon pzhon is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 66
Default Re: Beginner\'s Poker FAQ - Ready For Review

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Again, thanks pzhon for the excellent comments.

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You are welcome.

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http://twodimes.net/h/?z=774083
pokenum -h 5h 4h - 5d 4d -- ad 7h 6h 3c
cards EV
5h 4h 0.602
5d 4d 0.398

On that board, 54 with at least one heart is the nuts because it is equal to or better than any other hand. 5d 4d is not the nuts because it could be significantly behind.


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I understand what you're getting at but the point is we're talking about "the nuts" at a given point during the deal. Of course, the hand with the hearts has a significant chance of improving to the nuts on the river, but on the turn it's not the nuts. It's a draw at a better hand but even if it improves to a flush on the river it still may not be the nuts.

We're just trying to define the nuts, not draws at the nuts. We are crystal clear in the FAQ that over the course of the deal what the nuts is changes. I fully understand that to say something is "the nuts" on the flop or turn is a bit nonsensical since there are cards to come, but people hear the word used that way all the time on television broadcasts, so it might be nice for them to really understand what they're hearing.

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You keep mentioning draws at the nuts. I haven't said that, and it shouldn't be a part of the definition of the nuts.

The nuts on the turn means a hand that is ahead or equal to any other hand.

I don't understand why you say 5h 4h isn't the nuts, but other 54 hands are the nuts. That makes no sense. Typo? I say 5d 4d is not the nuts on the turn because it is behind 5h 4h. No hand is ahead of 5h 4h on the turn. (This would be true if it only had a flush draw, not a draw to the straight-flush. It would still be the nuts on a board of Ah 7h 6c 3d. So would 5h 4s.) That makes it the nuts on the turn.

The fact that 5d 4d would be tied or ahead of all hand if the game ended after the turn does not make it the nuts, as the game doesn't end on the turn. While the mistake of treating it as the nuts would not be so serious, it would be a big mistake to treat Ad 4d as the nuts on a board of Ks Qs Jc Tc.

Whether you believe me and Two Dimes or not, your example is flawed. There are clear examples showing what the nuts means. Why not include one of those?
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