[elindauer]

Hi Kwaz,

You make an interesting argument and it's certainly consistent. What you need to consider though is that your definition of what is moral and what isn't is arbitrary. It could be anything.

For example, we could all agree that collusion is perfectly legal. The whole game of poker could be a complicated conflict between teams signalling each other whole cards and coming up with strategies for beating other teams at the table. This would certainly be a fantastic, intellectually stimulating game, right? There's no reason this has to be "immoral", aside from us deciding arbitrarily that it is so.

So, what's the point? Well, once you see that defining morality is a rather arbitrary exercise, you start to ask yourself why you've defined the lines the way you have. One thing that I've come to realize is that in many ways it seems silly to draw these lines in ways that go against human nature, especially if those ways are totally unenforcable, and really especially if there isn't some overwhelming societal good that comes from drawing the lines this way.

In this case, there really isn't any harm done at all. All the information gathered is essentially public knowledge, and the difference between gathering the info before the hand or during the hand is aesthetic.

We've all agreed that sharing non-public information, in particular hole card information, is immoral. This is very difficult / impossible to enforce but we do see a major "societal" benefit to it, that of keeping the game as the contest between individuals that we enjoy so much.

Essentially what I'm saying is, your definition of morality, while consistent, is not very useful. It's rather arbitrary and refuses to acknowledge the reality of the world we live in. Further, your definition doesn't make the game any better then it is otherwise. In light of all that, it seems clear that your definition is flawed and you should just accept that public information can morally be traded at all times.

If you want to keep the "old" definition in place for live play, fine. It's easy enough to police. But that doesn't make it any less arbitrary or unecessary.

-Eric