[DougShrapnel]

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I completely disagree with your thesis.

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah I was expecting that.

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Some Christians believe that you can prove there is a G-d and that they have proven so. Lots of quasi-scientific stuff out there. [cough]Intelligent design[cough]

[/ QUOTE ] Proof denies fatih. Faith is an important tennet of xtianity. If faith is so important, it seems that a reasonable man must be given reason to doubt from time to time. Making gods existance without faith unknowable.
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I also think your definition of an agnostic is incomplete. I consider an agnostic to not just be someone that thinks a G-d cannot be proven, but one that also chooses to not believe or disbelieve the existence of a G-d. Theists believe in a G-d and the ones I respect most consider their belief a matter of faith and not something that can be objective proof.

I do appreciate your rhetorical efforts to unify, rather than divide, people of apparently great differences.


As for the other poster, I think it's incredibly naive to not consider atheism and theism on equal levels of dogmatic thought.

[/ QUOTE ] I don't wish to deabte the meaning of agnostic or atheist at this point only Christain.
The def I'm using are for this post only.
Agnostic - Without Knowledge, Unable to know about the existance of god or non existance,
Athesist - Without Belief, One who claims that there is no god. I personally disagree with both defs of the words, and try not to use them to mean what I'm using them to mean in this post. But mainly I'm just steamed that I have to use atheist as defined in a dictionary like Webster's New Twentieth Century (Unabridged), "The belief that there is no God." Worse yet, this brief line is then followed by a quote from Francis Bacon: "A little philosophy inclineth men's minds to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's mind to religion." And it gets worse. The same dictionary describes the Atheist as "one who believes that there is not God," and then quotes Young, saying "By night an atheist half believes a God."

Atheism is NOT a "belief." Atheism is derived from the Greek, atheos, and means simply "away from the belief in a god or gods." Atheists do not "believe," and it is incorrect to assume that the belief in a supernatural entity or entities is, somehow, equivalent to the "non-belief" in those same beings. It isn't.