[citanul]

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Come on.

OK, forget 8-tabling.

Early on, you're folding most of the time, making standard raises or limps most of the rest of the time, and making standard plays post-flop most of the time.

Later, it's push-or-fold, based mostly on position, cards, blinds, and stacks.

Yeah, occasionally reads help with marginal decisions. Also, if you get a donk who folds too much heads-up, I guess that counts as a "read".

But otherwise, it's just not all that important.

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well, that's true, i guess. if you hate money. but most of the rest of us, i think, play this game for money.

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Ah, the old "ad hominem" attack, ignoring my arguments.

Nice example to set.

I'm done with this thread.

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jebus, i pretty clearly attacked the root of your argument. let's go through it for the slow ones in back:

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Early on, you're folding most of the time, making standard raises or limps most of the rest of the time, and making standard plays post-flop most of the time.

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see my answer: you're throwing away piles of money by doing this at higher stakes games. i like money, so do other people. thus, the optimal advice is to not play in this manner

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Later, it's push-or-fold, based mostly on position, cards, blinds, and stacks.

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see my answer: you forgot reads. one of the most important things (i guess you left it out in your haste to write about what things are "mostly" based on) is the reads of how loosely/tightly your opponents are raising and calling. again, since i like money, i like to pay attention to these things.

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Yeah, occasionally reads help with marginal decisions.

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or hey, we could change this to the much more correct (just for fun though, not for serious reasons): "Yes, reads help all the time with all decisions." yeah, that's just way, way closer to the truth of the matter. if you don't think reads are important to poker, you're just flat out wrong. i'm not saying that you can't make money playing pretty much any form of poker almost entirely without them, i'm asking that you see my previous post: you're giving up big buckets of free money by not paying attention to your opponents, and it's not like you're not playing the game to make money. it's the whole reason you're sitting there clicking away in the first place.

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Also, if you get a donk who folds too much heads-up, I guess that counts as a "read".

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yeah, i guess that does. here, let's go from there: heads up, an opponent folding too much "might" count as a "read." how about - heads up, an opponents full set of tendencies you can observe count as a read? how about 3 handed, both opponents observable tendencies count as reads? 4 handed? 9 handed?

this really isn't very difficult, and you both haven't made any form of argument and argue poorly. but hey, that last sentence there isn't really necessary, i just wanted to get it off my chest.

c