[DVaut1]

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They must have failed that class, thus the reason for becoming politicians. I submit there is no political capital to be gained opposing the war.

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That's a rather specious submission, to say the least. Of course there's political capital to be gained by opposing the war. How do you think a no-name former Vermont governor is now head of the DNC, if not for harnessing some measure of the political capital available by opposing the war?

Yes, there is a population of Americans (not a majority by any stretch) who both oppose the war and are hungry for leadership. Of course, there is lots of political capital there.

To claim there's no political capital to be gained opposing the war is tantamount to claiming there's no one opposing the war. Simply untrue.

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So now you've disagreed that the war is going badly and stated you hope we win, but the point of this thread was not to support the defeatists, or to defend them, just disagree that they are defeatists.

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That's about right -- except I do believe the war is, in some areas, going poorly (and I'll freely admit there are, of course, some things going well). Merely saying that some things are going poorly does not mean that I believe we're bound to lose the war, nor does it making pointing such things out make me a defeatist.

Just because your favorite football team is down 14-0 at halftime, and playing poorly, doesn't necessarily mean that you think your favorite team is doomed to lose the game.