Re: J8o
your only true outs are to a Q and even that could be to a split on occasion. Not to mention your implied odds are crap if u do get the Q. U cant expect to make much and the only way u get excessive action is with a split, in which rake wins. Two pair, set and stuff will call u down trying to hit outs, and will probably even call a river bet (two pair calling a river bet would be crap imo, but hey whatever, just my opinion).
Your J and 8 outs are usually not that, not outs. (damn courier font for not having voice inflections).
Anyway, your hand is crap, I fold usually *(see next paragraph). Also preflop, most ppl will tell u I HATE TO FOLD, literally I do. I will play trash OTB or in the sb in super short pots in order to float or steal on the flop...but J8o is borderline-ish (almost always call an sb steal though. The only reason to not call in that situation is because its Phil Ivey stealing...but if thats the case Id 3bet and go toe-to-toe w/ that mofo. Seriously, I would). I would only usually call for stealing factors like u stated.
Im only staying in to try and steal, u could try and c/r and see what happens. I hate calling (well u could c/c and donk turn occasionally as well, but that line is not so hot usually, depends).
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