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Old 10-06-2005, 01:14 PM
MMMMMM MMMMMM is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,103
Default Re: I\'ve been Thinking

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Anyway, how could one read the most obvious verses cited in this thread, without considering them unequivocal commands?

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They're translated from Arabic into English; as I've said, the few Muslims I've met and spoke with about the Koran feel that all translations of the Koran are imperfect, and don't capture it's true meaning. So who I am to disagree? I don't know Arabic. I'll take their word for it.

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ACPlayer once posted a similar objection, so I thereupon went and found a Muslim website containing three different translations of the Koran, each by a Muslim scholar who was also a Muslim. I posted all three versions of the verses in question. While the translations were not identical, the general meanings were about the same. So I believe I have effectively answered this objection in the past. ACPlayer's response? Because he didn't speak Arabic himself, he would not accept them. Lol. So much for trying to argue or discuss with someone whose mind is already made up. Facts can be unwelcome distractions, to some.

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So my answer is that many Muslims (with vastly superior levels of knowledge and education about such things than you possess) have arrived at entirely different conclusions, and don't share your interpretation of the Koran.

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But this is not an accurate portrayal; the most radical imams are also among the most deeply studied in Islam; they have essentially lived, studied and breathed Islam their entire lives. And their conclusions are what we would call "fundamentalist" doctrine. So why not take their opinion instead of mine? The Muslims most highly educated in Islam are frequently among the most radical as well. By the way, if you'll go read some of the many many sermons transcripted on www.MEMRI.org , you will see that "fundamental"-style Islam is not unpopular or unusual at all--and neither are "radical" imams.

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No, the reason most Muslims don't go out and do those things is because they have better things to do, and are decent people. It's not like a huge portion of the Muslim population (of those who have actually read the Koran) think the Koran doesn't contain those instructions.

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How could you POSSIBLY know this?

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Because I've read so extensively on this and related subjects over the last half-dozen or so years, that I feel I can offer this as a generally accurate asssessment.

Of course there also exist many lay Muslims who don't really read the Koran much, and there also exist apologists who try to couch the violently aggressive verses in the Koran in more soothing terms. But the verses are really quite plain; and most imams worldwide would agree with that assessment.

Again, please see www.MEMRI.org for transcripts showing what many important imams REALLY think--not what you might presume they think.

I suppose you might give some credence to the past or current opinions of the head imam--or past head imams--of the Grand Mosque in Mecca--the most important Islamic preaching position in the world? Go to MEMRI, do a search, and read transcripts of those sermons to find out what he thinks about many such things. Then read some more transcripts by other notable imams, if you want to know what REALLY is considered Islamic thought, by those with knowledge and authority.
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