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Overall I'd say his river play is better than your preflop play.

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Wow...

That just sounds ridiculous to me. I mean...I guess here are my thoughts and we'll go from here.

My PF play is fairly simply. Huge family pot. I catch an 8 or I don't. Easy to play.

His river play. He's will to let his set check through? His will to face a 3 bet now with the 3rd nuts?

I don't see what you're saying at all....or is it your turn to exagerate [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

correct away

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With regards to preflop, once you LRR, you're not just playing for flop value. In addition, 88 isn't a "no set no bet" hand and you're probably significantly undervaluing it if you think that it is. You've got some room for flexibility with how you play 88 postflop but in a larger pot, a lot of that room for flexibility goes away, since no one is folding gutshots, overs, etc. So you change the way the hand plays out postflop unless you flop a set. In addition, you've put yourself in a position where you're seeing the turn at the least a good portion of the time, especially when there are a lot of flops where you "might" be good but you're not sure, but that "not sure" is subsidized by the pot you bloated.

With regards to his river play, can you name any hand that you 3-bet the turn with and call his cap that you don't value bet on the river? I think a bet-3bet is ideal given his hand, but going for a bet-3bet is a bit too hopeful since you will bet a lot more hands than you raise on that river, especially given the fact that he can occasionally trap the straggler for one more bet on the river than if he attempted a bet-3bet.

Rob

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Excellent explanation. I just spoke with a friend who had the same thoughts.

I'm fighting a 300 bb downswing right now, and I don't think I have my head screwed on straight.