Thread: out of line?
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Old 12-19-2005, 04:35 PM
Ghazban Ghazban is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1
Default Re: out of line?

First off, you want to figure out what the huge preflop raise is for this guy so, in the future, you'll have a huge advantage of knowing exactly what he's holding when he does it again. For some players, this is a scared AA that's afraid of playing postflop; for some, its JJ/TT that "knows" there'll be an ace on the flop and screw him; for others, its a pure bluff that they'll keep pushing hard all the way no matter what falls (I know a player on Party who makes very large preflop reraises with junk-- 72o, 62s, etc-- every once in a while and then will pot or repot any amount of betting/raising postflop. I've stacked him 3 times in about 1000 hands just by calling down his hyperaggression with hands that figure to be best against low trash).

Anyway, even if you don't know what the fat preflop raise means, you still have pretty decent implied odds to call and try to spike a set. Players that raise preflop this large will almost always make a big continuation bet on the flop even if they're capable of laying it down later (except the guys that do this raise with KK and then check behind all streets if an A flops; yes they do exist).

Once you get this butt-fugly flop, I'd be done with the hand. The turn checkraise is a nice attempt at picking it up but, once that gets called, I'd be done with the hand as you don't have enough behind to really put villain to a tough decision. The hand would be interesting if you spiked a 6 on the river (particularly if it was a spade) but you need a read that villain likes to make big laydowns to follow through on the river given what did fall.

I'm not sure what to put villain on. It could be QsQx or TsTx or even a weirdly played KK. If you got a fold on the end from a better hand, I'd be surprised but you might make him fold his bricked AsQx (which would be good in many ways as showing this hand down could drastically change your image which you may or may not want)-- the money isn't really deep enough to call the turn and fold the river with a paired hole card (with or without a spade redraw).

My real problem with your line is that it doesn't make any sense from villain's perspective. What holding can you have that checks the flop and checkraises the turn? Would you play the nut flush this way? Most people would lead the turn with that holding to build the pot. What about a set? Would you really check a set twice and give him 2 free shots to catch a 4th spade? That, too, seems unlikely. From villain's perspective, I have a hard time putting you on a legitimate hand that would call such a large preflop raise and then check twice on a board like this. What exactly are you trying to represent?
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