[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
How do these people really think it never happened? Is anyone here informed enough to debate for them? I just want to know how anyone other then complete and total nazi/moron could believe this.

[/ QUOTE ]

The arguments of the "Holocaust Revisionists" are based mainly on two tenets:

1. There is no explicit Nazi order or decision extant that directly and in no uncertain terms commands the extermination of the Jews. *

2. The number of "Six Million Dead" is arbitrary, unsupported by facts and propagandist.

I have read a lot of the literature put out by Revisionists, eg Butz, Maurisson. Let's deal with their work very quickly here:

EVEN IF THE ABOVE ARE TRUE, we do have a holocaust of Jews by the Nazis and this is evidenced by what has been actually documented (i.e. the ideological manifestos, the actual Nazi treatment of "inferior races",etc). In other words, even if historican never unearth an order directing Jews to be gassed, the totally inhumane, beastly treatment of people by the Nazis (whereby humans were reduced to something inferior than animals), is absolutely equivalent to giving an order to kill.

And even if the "correct" figure turns out to be indeed much less than "Six Million", so what? It is still an absolute holocaust, mass murder on a scale that henceforth renders poetry impossible, as the philosopher mourned.

[ QUOTE ]
My grandfather ... went ... to Germany and fought. He knows it happened, he saw it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your grandpa saw camps. He did not see the plan nor the order for the Jews' extermination. But what he saw (and what we all found out from a distance) is I believe tantamount to organised, pre-planned, systematic murder, i.e. a holocaust.

Please note that the Russian POWs suffered almost as badly as the Jews in WWII, at the hands of the Nazis, and also the Gypsies, and other tribes or "scum" like homosexuals.

--Cyrus
__________________
* The argument of Revisionists goes like this, about the death camps and the gas chambers: The Germans in WWII desperately needed human slave labour. They needed those who were able to work. Therefore, the Nazis would not have been stupid to kill off the labor they needed so much. The people who were put to death were either unable to work or sick. (Note that a typhus epidemic was indeed coming down in the prisons, at the time. This has been documented by Red Cross, among others.) The Revisionists claim that the gassing was done in order to kill safely those infected and fumigate the area at the same time.