[Zim]

I burned out a little on Holdem, so thought I'd look into limit O8

I came across this post from Buzz, and it really helped out. I'm amazed at how simple it is to more than hold your own at this game (at the lower limits, at least).

Thanks, Buzz. Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Best,
Zim
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Buzz's Omaha post

Here is Buzz's excellent original post for an Omaha 8 beginner - see message below:

Read, re-read and re-re-read Ray Zee's book and you won't go far wrong. However, it is not a complete guide. In particular it does not list what starting hands you should play, nor does it have a point count system. You also need to think a lot about what you read - the book does not go step by step. It is mostly arranged by separate topics.

There is also quite a useful essay by Barry Shulman on the Card Player website called something like "A simple guide to beating most omaha 8 or better games". And basic odds are given in an essay by David Sklansky in the Essays section of this site.

One of the things that has been written about O/8 in low limit games is that as long as you play tighter than everyone else before the flop, and at least rationally afterwards, you will win. And I think it is true. So I would suggest that you take the following very tight and simple approach as your starting guide for the moment. You can loosen up as you learn. You can also loosen up a little bit in later position. You will note that given the following you will play very few hands and it will be very boring. That is the way this game is. But you will usually be in good shape in the pots you do play.

1. Only play big cards (T or above) or small cards (up to a 5 or 6). Do not play hands with middling cards. Thus A246, A345, KQJT, AKQJ, KQQJ, AK23 can be played but 6789, A489, A779, even A289 cannot. Three big cards or three small cards can stand one middling card, sometimes. E.g. A248, AKQ9.

2. Generally, for the low you should only enter the pot with A2 and another low card. In later position you can play A3 or 23 with another low card, but you really need a 2 or an A (respectively) on the flop to carry on (see below). This requirement is cumulative to point 1: DO NOT regard e.g. 3456 as "four small cards" and therefore playable.

3. Fold on the flop unless you have the nut low, a good draw to the nut low, the nut high, or a good draw to the nut high. E.g. you have A267 and the flop is 45K, or you have KQJT and the flop is 29T (both good draws), or you have A2KQ and the flop is 378, or you have KQJT and the flop is 789 (both nut hands one way). But if you were in with AK36 and the flop was 478, fold of there is betting: your low draw is not to the nuts unless a 2 comes. You can break this last rule with extreme discretion in very late position.

4. Scooping is great when it happens, but if there are lots of players in every pot who not drawing to the nuts (there usually are in low limit), getting half will be profitable anyway. So just bet your hand and be extra happy if you scoop. Most of your scoops will come when no low is possible, for obvious reasons.

5. Suited aces are big money winners in low limit O/8. But do not play them without a 2 or 3 or high cards. Suited A9, for example, is no reason on its own to play a hand.

6. Small pairs are generally bad news unless you have them with an A2 or A3, in which case they can be great. E.g. your hand is A255 and the flop is 35T: you have a nut low draw and a set for high (more about sets below). The 5 on the flop helps you both ways.

7. Big pairs (QQ, KK, AA) can also be good, but are not a reason in themselves to play. Your other cards must still be good. I would advise you to forget all other "big" pairs: JJ, TT, 99 (especially the last).

8. If you have one of the above starting hands, I would advocate betting or raising with it before the flop, and if you get a flop which meets point 3 above, I would bet or raise again, most definitely if there are four or more people in the pot. Lots of people could disagree with this advice for reasons which have a good deal of merit against sophisticated opponents. Against weak opponents who probably will just call and get no useful information from your bet, I would just bet/raise, though. It is simple and easy to remember and execute. Also, this will give you a generally good image.

9. Keep betting on 4th street if you have the nuts. Check/call if you still have a draw to the nuts. This is grossly oversimplified advice, but you will not go too far wrong with it. Additionally, if you are just drawing to half a small pot, fold.

10. On 5th street, keep betting if you have the nuts. If you do not have the nuts, consider calling one bet if you have a hand which is nearly the nuts and it does not look like there will be a raising war.

11. You will hear a lot about getting quartered. It is not necessarily the end of the world. If you get quartered in a five-way pot, you still make a (small)profit! In a four way pot, you break even, in a three way pot you lose (a bit). So do not spend too much time worrying about it.

12. Since you asked: sets. Because you are only going to play QQ and upwards of the "big" pairs, you will usually flop top set if you flop a set at all (I also recommended small pairs with an A2 or A3 above, but you will play those hands primarily for low, with the small set as a bonus for high if it stands up). If you flop second "big" set and there is betting, there is nothing too wrong with folding. Let's assume you only play top set, and let's assume the board is not paired (since if it is, there is not too much to worry about). Then, much depends on the rest of the flop. If there is only one low card or no low cards you have a great chance to scoop and I would suggest just hammering away. Provided there are a few people in, you have great odds to draw at a full house. If you have not filled up by the river and there is still betting, you should usually fold unless you detect that the betting is being driven by the low hands and there is no made high. This, I am afraid, takes skill to determine. If there are two low cards on the flop, you should be much more cautious. You likely will only get half, and the two low cards always tend to look dangerous if a third comes. E.g. 34 on the flop and a 6 comes: two different straights are possible. I would suggest that with two low cards on the flop you just call along unless there are a lot of players, or until you fill up. I promise you that big sets are profitable in the long run, but I acknowledge that they can be maddening in the short term!

Good luck, and happy grinding!

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(ps I never did find the Shulman article, but that's OK)