[Buzz]

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the 9TJK is much easier to play.

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kitaristi0 - I agree it’s easier to play.

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As soon as the flop comes you can quite easily judge whether you want to continue or not.

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That argument seems generally true for any starting hand. Depends a bit on who's in the game with me and exactly how well my hand fits the flop is, but as soon as I see the flop, I pretty much know if I want to continue or not. (I suppose you could come up with a hand and situation that would be tough to play after the flop).

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With a 3456 the only flop I'm going to be happy with is A2x.

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Then I agree you shouldn't play the hand.

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Even another good flop (I think the flop in the hand in question was 236?) is going to be hard to play.

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In the post to which you refer, Jeffrey simply took a bad beat from an opponent who didn't really have proper odds to continue after the flop or turn. That could happen with any hand, even a premium starting hand (although it's admittedly less likely to happen with a premium starting hand). But it certainly could easily happen to the 9TJK hand.

The 3456 hand is not hard to play after a 236 flop. (You don’t fold. Whether you raise or not depends on how your opponents will react to a raise). And it's surely not hard to play 3456 after another six on the turn makes the board 2366. (But I’ll admit the turned nut full house is more vulnerable to an over-pair than a nut full house made with 9TJK; the higher the turned full house, the safer).

And I’ll admit I do like the higher scoop potential of 9TJK.

But when 9sThJsKd makes a flush it will often not be the nuts. In the 10,000 run simulation, the best hand 9sThJsKd made was a flush 713 times, but the flush only won 229 times. (It lost the other 484 times). So what do you do when you have a non-nut flush on the river using a jack-nine from your hand? (It’s a rhetorical question). And the hand made a straight 2007 times, but only won high with a straight 560 times (and tied for high with a straight another 368 times). You’re going to end up with a non-nut hand on the river more often than not - and then what? (Another rhetorical question). The point is, the hand may be easy to play after the flop, but it’s not necessarily easy to play on the turn and river.

I’m certainly don’t mean to put a halo on the head of 3456. That hand can be tough to play also. It’s just that 9TJK has some of the same problems as 3456 and isn’t as easy to play as it might at first seem. I’m not recommending you play or don’t play either hand. I think they’re both sub-marginal (but I might sometimes see the flop with either of them).

That’s just my opinion.

Buzz