[Godfather80]

Here is an article that I have some questions about, so I'd like to get others' thoughts. My trouble with this article is the way the authors talks about QQ preflop in a shorthanded game. From Isura's site:
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A great example of why I should follow my own advice about QQ
Chris Grove

There's an article on our site regarding trap hands in no limit holdem that I should be pretty familiar with, because I wrote it. You can read it here. The relevant line from the article:

"But in any decent game, committing your stack with an unimproved QQ is a loser in the long haul."

Here's an example from the 1-2 EURO game at InterPoker [200 euro buyin], with some comments in bold. As usual, names of players have been changed to protect the innocent and / or stupid, altho I'm really the only stupid one involved here.

Game #143191593: Texas Hold'em No Limit (€1/€2) - 2004/10/18 - 00:36:58 (GMT)
Table "Gold" Seat 2 is the button.
Seat 1: ME (€165.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Shappro (€133 in chips)
Seat 3: PLAYER A (€323.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Jughead (€117.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Shaner001 (€139.50 in chips)
PLAYER A: posts small blind €1
Jughead: posts big blind €2
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to ME [Qs Qh]
Shaner001: calls €2
ME: raises to €10
Shappro: calls €10
PLAYER A: calls €9
Jughead: folds
Shaner001: folds

Ok, generally I just limp with QQ, even in a 6 person game. If I'm raising, it's usually because the table is very weak and I've been raising a whole lot preflop or because a short stack has raised and I want to isolate with a reraise. Neither was the case here, and my just above pot size raise is also pretty useless. I really don't stand to win anything by raising - the best I'm accomplishing is building a pot in case I hit my set. Really what I've done is set a trap for myself, especially when two players basically cold call the raise.

----- FLOP ----- [6h 3s 7c]
PLAYER A: checks
ME: bets €35
Shappro: folds
PLAYER A: calls €35

Uh-oh. I bet pot on a pretty scary flop for QQ with two players in and the SB flat calls. Remember, in a lot of situations, you should be far more afraid of an out of position flat call than a raise. I don't have any problem with betting the flop hard here - a strong bet should get me the information I need about where I'm at. The mistake comes on the turn.



----- TURN ----- [6h 3s 7c][3h]
PLAYER A: bets €35
ME: raises to €100
PLAYER A: raises to €165
ME: is all-in €20.75
Returned uncalled bets € 44.25 to PLAYER A

Ok, when my opponent bets one-third of pot on the turn, I really need to think about what he's on. Remember, the board shows no flush draws on the flop, so he's not calling on that. He might've been calling on a straight draw with 89 on the flop and now is trying to see the river cheaply. He might also have a hand like 10 10 or JJ and, again, trying to get me to just call so he can see a cheap river. People tend to underbet pots for two reasons in this spot - they have a draw or a weak pair that they want to play through for low cost, or they have a monster and, especially when they're out of position to you, they can't stand the thought that you might check behind if they go for a checkraise.

The reason I'm even in the quandary, however, is because I built the pot preflop with a marginal hand. Right now I'm staring at a $35 bet into a roughly $110 pot and I have about $120 left. If I don't raise preflop and the bets proceed the same way proportionately, I'd only have about $12 invested in this pot vs $45, and my decision would be a lot easier. I wouldn't have to defend the pot.

My raise is, bottom line, a bad decision. The only hands I beat that call are 88-JJ or 67 stupidly calling with top two. Yes, you might get a random idiot who calls with A7, but realistically, I'm running behind here to trips, a straight or a boat and, most importantly, I have almost zero chance of improving. I don't mind raising when I might be running behind if I have some outs, but two just isn't going to cut it.


----- RIVER ----- [6h 3s 7c 3h][8h]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
PLAYER A: shows [7s 7h] (A Full House, Sevens full of Threes)
ME: mucks hand
ME sits out
PLAYER A collected €342.50 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot €345.50 Main pot €342.50 | Rake €3
Board [6h 3s 7c 3h 8h]
Seat 2: Shappro (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: PLAYER A (small blind) showed [7s 7h] and won (€342.50) with A Full House, Sevens full of Threes
Seat 4: Jughead (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Shaner001 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

It turns out my opponent made a pretty darn good bet. It was very hard for me to lay down QQ for such a cheap bet, and in fact I raised - any time you can get an opponent to take the lead with the worst hand, you've done something right. He put me in a tough spot - I supposed I could've just called, although I have a feeling I would've been facing an all in call on the river anyhow. I'm just not good enough to fold in that spot, but I should be good enough to not toss all my chips in the middle. This is a great example of how just a little bit of knowledge of your opponents betting patterns can be a stack saver - if I had even a hint of what under bets meant from this particular opponent, I could've gotten away 120 euros richer.

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