[SeaEagle]

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The second 1/2 of your statement is correct (don’t raise with 88 in this hand), but it's perfectly fine to raise with 88 pre-flop when you have 5+ players in the pot, because when the hero does flop a set of eights he will usually get that extra 2.5 bets that are implied nearly 100% of the time. This concept is shown is Small Stakes Hold’em’s “loose” charts… Ed recommends raising with 88 from late position in most pots. If you have 5 limpers to you, this is an excellent time to pop the field with a raise.

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You'll get the implied bets regardless of whether you raise PF or not. With the minor except of weak draws calling because of the bigger pot, raising PF doesn't have any impact on your ability to collect implied bets. In fact, raising PF cuts your implied odds in half, and doubles the number of bets you need to collect postflop in order to make a long-term profit.

As I said in my last post, raising 88 in LP is great if you can limit the field since it plays so well HU. But 5 limpers to you on the button isn't a very good place to raise 88.

Put another way, as a general rule, if you're pretty sure you can't win the hand UI, then don't put extra chips in before you see the flop. With 5 limpers, 88 is seldom going to win UI.

One could argue that you have an equity edge over 5 limpers, and you do, but much of the edge you have is based on cards you'll never see. For instance, PokerStove shows 88 with 24% equity against 5 random hands (each of the other hands having 15%). But 8% of the time, you'll make your set on the turn or river and it's unlikely you'll see either of these streets with 5 other players in the pot. So, really, you have a tiny, if any, equity edge PF.

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Lets get back on track, this is NOT what Justin A's hand is about, there are much more interesting things to discuss.


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I realize it's hijacking the thread, but I think overplaying pairs PF is one of the more common mistakes I see otherwise decent limit players make.