[shutupndeal]

JJ's shouldnt be tier A 1 hand and this all started because I was reading how QKs (a fav hand) is a positional hand at best that shouldnt be played from early position.
So I matched a pair of J's against QKs with 1 other player who I gave A-5s (clubs) (I cannot account for position remember this is on the cardplayer calculator)

Heres the results against 3,4 and 5 players......

(Wow, I see I cant add anything to the thread so Ill have to give you the plain #'s.I was going to give you pix)

With 3 players playing, the J's in 1st seat, the QKs in 2nd and the A-5s in 3rd these were my numbers...
34.8 (Jd-Js)
34.0 (Qh-Kh)
31.2 (Ac-5c)

w 4 players adding a pair of 7d-7s the QK now takes the winning %

28.2 JJ's
29.0 QKs
27.3 A-5s
15.5 7d-7s

with 5 players adding a connecter (8h-9d) which is an 8h so it takes away from a str poss and a flush card from the QKs,
of course it affects the JJ's somewhat but Im not a mathematician I just thought it was half fair, maybe I should have tried a maniac with a 3-4o? lol

24.4 JJ's
25.6 QK
14.0 7's
27.1% A-5c
08.9 8h-9d
NOTICE the QK beats the J's everytime except the initial hand with 3 players and take real note of the A-5 suited as the best hand now. I find this hard to imagine given we have two big cards with the Q-K against the 5 with the Ace, I always tend to think it evens things out cuz you have that 2nd big card to hit but.........whatever I cant argue with the calculator, I tried it wont answer me!

Anyway I am not by ANY MEANS knocking David's hand rankings I just think the QKs either belongs in group1-tier1 or however you slice it/name it OR then that the J's arent quite as strong as we originally thought and now maybe after all these years of playing David will concede and make the J's a tier2-Group2 hand?

Remember when the Groups were.......... err well "grouped" I dont know how David envisiond this BUT he was writing about ring game play mostly in the early works so I kind of took it to heart that he didnt mean the hands should play head to head. I think this comparison is fair in that it takes into account the type of hands we face day in and day out playing ring games too. So how about it, agree disagree....I am ready for flames and input! lol
Oh and BTW.my fav card in the deck is the Jd! : )