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Old 12-23-2005, 02:17 PM
AKQJ10 AKQJ10 is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 184
Default Re: On Golden Pond, but no catch

[ QUOTE ]
For OP: in superloose games, loosen up when it comes to drawing hands, and tighten up when playing hands that make TPTK. AQo isn't worth much in this sort of game, and AJo is pretty much trash, but suited aces, suited connectors, and small-medium pairs are goldmines.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree about suited aces, suited connectors, and pairs. But I disagree about AQo and AJo. They certainly lose value in loose games, no one disputes that. But they still have retain some value, because they can make hands like top two or TPTK that get paid off because of the looseness in these games.

I may be looking at this more anecdotally than theoretically, because I recall dragging a huge pot with aces and queens over a couple of worse two pairs [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. But I certainly don't think you should be folding these even in a typical, 8-to-the-flop, go-to-the-river-with-your-two-outer kind of games.

ZenMusician:[ QUOTE ]

It took me awhile to really understand the true meaning of
protecting your hand. It really means "forcing your opponents
to call/play unprofitably". The shocker is YOU DO NOT CARE
IF THEY CALL OR NOT when you have forced them to make
mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]

You certainly do care! You wish they would make the more -EV or less +EV play -- but you're happy you limited them to worse options than if you'd played your own hand incorrectly.

As for protecting one's hand, my understanding is that even if you "can't protect your hand" enough to make it unprofitable for draws to call, you should still do whatever you can to get the most money in the pot while you're leading -- be it betting out, check/raising, or holding up on the flop and raising after a blank on the turn. You certainly shouldn't say, "I can't protect my hand, so I'll meekly check/call and expect to get drawn out on." You can't make it wrong for them to call, but you can make it more expensive.

ZenMusician:
[ QUOTE ]

This hand was played badly. You did not protect your hand.
It is clear you have not read SSHE (Small Stakes Hold 'Em)
by Ed Miller (see books on this site). You must learn to
bet your hands and draws correctly; this may mean check
raising instead of leading, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read SSHE several times (although I've misplaced my copy) and it's not clear to me at all that the OP was categorically wrong. In passive games, it wouldn't be surprising to have the flop and turn checked through six ways. As bad as charging one bet when you could have charged two may be, charging zero when you could have charged one is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR worse.

In aggressive games or with aggressive players in late position, then failing to c/r may well be a grevious error. I don't see the evidence to make that conclusion here, though.

I don't recall seeing in SSHE the recipe for the magic potion to make the button bet when you want to c/r, but perhaps I overlooked that section.
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