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Old 11-03-2005, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: do we have free will?

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"No. If the universe is deterministic, man can not have free will. But there are ways to not have free will that doesn't depend on the universe being determinstic."

Good point, I guess I was a little overbroad in my interpretation.

One thing I don't understand is this though, why is it that so many people see a gap in "reality" and fill it with a godlike being. For example, you say that there has to be something above those neurons aka the Umoved Mover. Now, I'm not saying its a bad idea, but isn't it equally logical to say that maybe the human mind is that force? That somehow the concious mind is removed and "above" all those neurons and electrons etc? I don't really subscribe to either view but I don't understand why the missing link so to speak is so often attributed to "god"

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Well, I'm not disagreeing with you. What I meant was that if there is a conscious self that somehow - by no means that can be explained by science, as of yet - transcends what we believe to be the laws of the universe, then something supernatural is going on around here. What one wishes to attribute that supernatural phenomenon to is, well... One's own choice.

Myself, I don't attribute it to anything specific. I'm by almost any count an agnostic, and on this topic, I just haven't made up my mind. I could as well believe that we're mindless... Sorry, free-will-less drones, as believing that we're somehow above the laws of the universe. The first makes more sense, the latter appeals to my ego (don't mess with my ego).

But no, it doesn't have to be any kind of deity by the standard definition that gives us the ability of free will. But it does lend itself to some sort of spirituality, doesn't it? I mean, we are talking about our "self" as being something other than flesh and blood. But this is mostly semantics, and trying to put labels on something we don't know to exist - and much less are able to understand and describe - is kind of futile.

Still, your point is valid. Even if god... No wait, that's not a good analogy. Even if <something> came to you right now and explained to you how free will works, there's no guarantee that the explanation (if there even is one) includes anything that even remotely resembles what we'd call a god.
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