[Jdanz]

i respect the argument but in this case i disagree (or possibly i don't disagree, but there might not be any reason to be talking about the issue then.

First of all we're working with terms like race that are inherently fuzzy. I sincrely doubt anyone can adquetley define what being black is. Secondly the issue was frames in terms of taking responsiblity, which to me implies choice, choice is an active element that isn't chaos.

The orignal poster certainly doesn't view "the rap fad" as chaotic, he views it as an irresponsible choice (i tend to disagree, but that's neither here nor there). The OP is simply not concerned with chaos theory.

I personally don't see these macro effects as the result of chaos, but of way leading to a way in a logical manner. However, i believe these causal linkages are so confusing and complex as to be to a large degree unintelligable, certainly as they're acting, maybe for all time. This while importantly different is largely indistinguishable from chaos.

The problem with accepting this view, is then there is no discussion. If social change is based in chaos then there's simply no reason to disucss it, as chaos plays such an unknowable but significant role that any active policies effects would be almost completely unpredictable.

Yet history has shown that it is in fact predictable. For instance American history tells us that in two or three generations an immigrant group is basically assimilated. If we're going to talk about blacks in comparison to them, then they immigraten en mass at the VERY EARLIEST in 1965, and imagine were not treated equitably at that point (and are still not treated equitably now). However this is/has been true for many other groups and i have great faith that it will be true for the black race as well, given a long enough period of ability to coexist without active and systematic discrimination.

The reason i say this is because if you look thoughout history this is invariably true, no race has shown any prediliction towards greatness above any other. The "Great" civilizations have occured spontaneously all throughout time from a variety of races, hence i have to reason to think race is not the causal issue of black under achievement. However there is a very compelling (though certainly not provable) explination in as much as it's only been 40 years since we legislated inequality.

People act as if slavery was over in 1860 and then everything was cool, why hasn't the black buisness community established itself like the white? well try being a black person and getting a loan up until almost yesterday. I'm not trying to say there isn't a difference between blacks and whites in America, but i have every reason to believe that this has to do with 300 years of inequity as opposed to consious choice over 40 years of freedom.

edit: sorry for all the grammer/spelling i'm just a lazy bastard and i just finished a final.