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Old 10-20-2003, 12:20 PM
Ed Miller Ed Miller is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Writing \"Small Stakes Hold \'Em\"
Posts: 4,548
Default Re: Sorry--but not sorry

From Krieger's article:
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The mathematics of Morton's Theorem shows that there is a range of pot sizes (in this particular case, between 6.25 and 8.5 big bets) when it is correct for the player holding second pair to fold, and you make more money when he plays correctly and folds than you will when he chases.

[/ QUOTE ]

From my post:
This is where you are mistaken. Yes, you are correct. In a 3-way pot where you hold the boss made hand, there are two draws against you, one solid and one weak, there is a range of pot sizes where the weak draw loses money by calling... and so do you.

From Krieger's article:
[ QUOTE ]
Morton observed that the schooling phenomenon increased the variance of the player who flops top pair with A-K, and he theorized that it also increased his expectation in the long run - particularly when compared to games in which opponents correctly fold their weak draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

From my post:
The "schooling" effect that people love to talk about, however, is often not particularly big, even when there are several draws against you.

How exactly did you reach the conclusion that I didn't read the article? As a matter of fact, I've read this article, Caro's article, and the original RGP post several times before.

Here is my point again.

Morton's Theorem says that for a certain range of pot sizes, weak draws can cost both themselves and the boss made hand money by calling. The person who profits from this is someone with a stronger draw.

This is your argument, as it has been stated thus far in this thread: "You should keep the pot small preflop with AQo because of Morton's Theorem."

My point is, "Huh?" How does the fact that weak draws can cost you money by calling mean that you should keep the pot small preflop? When you fail to raise preflop, you lose money. How much money? Well, it depends on the size of your preflop edge. Yes, when the pot is big preflop, you make less money after the flop with a one pair hand. But how much less? Well, it depends on how many draws there are against you. The point is that there is a tradeoff. When you raise preflop, you make less money after the flop. When you limp preflop, you make less money before the flop. Which is better? That is not clear... and you have done absolutely nothing to reconcile this tradeoff.

The headsup example was just designed to show that, simply because you lose money after the flop doesn't mean that it is wrong to raise preflop. It obviously was not intended to capture the "Morton's Theorem" effect.
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